I don't know if you live in Canada or not or ever heard of the name Bill Sampson. He is a fellow Canadian who was improsoned in Saudi Arabia for two years, got tortured, and sentenced to death based on "confessions" he made after tortures. If you ask him, (again if you follow the news that he might sue the federal government for the lack of action) he gives you a different side of the story. He would say you that his English sounding name and all other facial things you mentioned didn't help him in his case! I don't think what you described is fair. The fact is that the fedral governments' hands are tied in Kazemi's case. She travelled to Iran on an Iranian passport. No country ... I repeat ... no country can have much saying when its citizen travels on a different passport. What Canadian... [more at the permalink of the entry above]
two first paragraphs are repeated. correctify it!
Dear my friends, Let me look at this case from the legal point of view since this is my field of study. The branch of the law which deals with this matter is called International Private Law. In international private law the double citizenship is not acceptable. Although practically, there are millions of people who benefit from the double citizenship, however, they have still one citizenship in the eyes of the home country. Hence, when Mrs, Zahra Kazemi travelled Iran, she is still an Iranian. Therefore, nobody can come and ask Iran what you have done to her, or why you have imprisoned her according to the sovereignty principle in public International Law. To sum up, it is now clear that according to respective principles in private international law, and public International law, the act of the Canadian government is not legally acceptable, and it is interfere in the... [more at the permalink of the entry above]
I agree with the other comments on this issue. I know when I got my Canadian citizenship they told me that is I travel with my Iranian passport to Iran, Canadian government cannot support me at all. They even said that if I travel with Iranian passport anywhere else, it is very probable that Canadian government cannot support me. So I think people who have the Canadian passport are aware of that, since there are tens of pamphlets in the passport office which informs people with dual citizenship of their rights and government's limitations.
Smart choice of picture!!!. Did you do that just because of the red emblem in center of our flag?!
Well, I don't know the legal, political, and economical issues surrounding Ms. Kazemi's death and government actions. I just want to mention that treating dual citizens differently is not limited to when they are outside the country. My aunt is an Iranian American citizen. She traveled for some medical treatment to US two days ago. As far as I know, this was an emergency travel, and she shouldn't have a large luggage. And of course, she was entering US with her US passport. The customs agency, however, did a thorough inspection of her luggage, and the only thing she had was some nuts (Ajil), which apparently made some trouble. She thinks that the only reason this happened was that she was born in Iran. (Her appearance is just like a western citizen, nothing special. ) No way to prove it, but I feel she is right. Mistreating dual citizens... [more at the permalink of the entry above]
but isnt the point that, dual citizenship, is NOT supposed to be different. i think the point here is that when one gets citizenship from say canada or US, there is not supposed to be a difference with someone who is born there. rite? and regarding teh case of sampson or even Arar, these people survived and they are personally the ones who pursuing the issue. but the kazemi issue is not even on the radar anymore.
I thought maybe those interested can find the following text useful: "International Law Cases and Materials", 4th Ed., by Damrosch, Henkin, Pugh, Schachter and Smit, at p.425 has a section on 'Nationality under International Law' which could be useful.
Well, I guess this is a real tragedy, what I do not like about is nation-oriented task, I mean we have to look at it as a human being passed away by Islamic Justice,, not only a navy blue passport and red flag dilemma. We have to admit even we ourselves do not put any value for Iranian people, look at many other journalists who are in jails, being tortured, killed, and no one even know their names. Beyond this Tragedy, there is a nationalism issue which would not let us consider the victims as human beings. Orientalists in North now take as a grant. Let it be?
Shahriar, There is a very important point hidden in your article. It shows how "passive and expecting" Iranians are. I will try to do my best to summerize it in the shortest post possible. When Zahra Kazemi died, how many Iranian-Canadians protested in Canada? how many of them gathered to sign a petition, talk to their senators/governors and put political pressure on the Canadian government? NONE! Absolutely None. I have come to this conclusion that most Iranian-Canadians and before them, most Iranian-Americans, are among the most passive community of Immigrants in North America. They are just happy that they have good-enough jobs and a decent life/education. They do nothing, and expect a lot in return. Now look at Non-Iranians, i.e. native Canadians, Americans, and Europeans. They are the exact opposite. In comparison, they organize meetings, demonstrations, protests, strikes UNTIL THEY GET what they want from their government, whether it... [more at the permalink of the entry above]
I can't agree more with Panther. Action is what is missing, complaints are abound.
Dear Panther, Your first pargaraph seemed to be very true to me at the first glance but when I deeply thought I found although you might be right but the fact of the matter is the government you are talking about is not dedicated for Iranians or other people as you think. You see, US president congratulates Iranian-Americans in every circumstance to show that he respecets them but he and his gang try to deport even Iranian-Americans who are in the US (remember what happened in LA last year). I agree with you that Iranian who live in North America are not active as they should be and just try to complain and nag instead of doing something (as you pointed out),I think this is a general chractersitics of Iranians who forget about others when they have their own position, reputation, and so on. We all have forgotten who... [more at the permalink of the entry above]
We did protest and we did show up in Canadian national TV, CBC. In fact during the week of those events we had a smart media campaign that included peaceful demonstrations, TV interviews and newspaper article tips. These actions were on a small scale but were none the less present. Political activism in general is a taboo for immigrant societies but there is no doubt that in times like this, these actions are more necessary and actually more difficult to accomplish.
Panther, The protests were done. Petitions were signed. What else do you expect? Canada's in a bizare position: one of its citizens has travelled to another country on a different passport. What kind of leverage may Canada have? Again regarding protests, let me remind you that 2 million people demonstrated in London demanding the British government to butt out of Iraq war. Polls after polls showed the majority of the British were agains the war. Petitions were again signed. Protests were made one after another. The result? Another point. I don't not only see any poblem with Iranian immigrant not to be assertive about their causes, but also I see it natural. Name me one first generation immigrant gourp who have been vocal? Just one. Expressing opinion in the open always starts from the second generation. Iranians haven't got past the phase yet.
Dear Who man, "Name me one first generation immigrant gourp who have been vocal? Just one." Ba yek gol ke bahar nemishe. Panther's point is this is a general charachteristics of Iranians not to get involved AS MUCH AS IT IS NECESSARY. What you are trying to mention is few dedicated people get invlove and try the best. I don't deny that fact that always there exist very dedicated people such as yourself, but generally speaking, can you say more than for instance 60% of people who can really a doer are active? I guess not. I think this was his point. Another point is, we are wiping boys and doomed because of our nationality. The reson is obvious: we don't have political influence. We have just learnt how to speak well without having any positive and effective effect.
To the previous commentor (I wish you'd left a name): 1- I didn't get the relationship between my sentence that you quoted and your follow-up one that has flower and spring in it. 2- "this is a general charachteristics of Iranians not to get involved AS MUCH AS IT IS NECESSARY". And my point was to challenge this. Who says this? Based on what? On iranians who live in Iran? Well, sorry they can't. Based on Iranians who live abroad? Sorry they are still a young immigrant group even in Los Angles. More imporatntly they are first generation immigrants. So clarify where this myth that I hear a lot (not from you) has come from. 3- On the contrary to what you say I can argue otherwise just for the sake of argument. Iranians as nation who have always been silenced don't miss a chance to express their individual... [more at the permalink of the entry above]
... I almost forgot. Another factor is Iranian population wherever they are. Never forget that Iranians even in LA where is supposedly Tehrangeles don't demographically make the top 5 ethnic groups. They are not even in the radar screen of California, population-wise.
Dear Whoman, Thanks for your detailed response. Regarding my first point, even in this forum including me we just talk and talk. Do you know how many of this political Iranian forum exist and more than 90% of them live in N.A.? God knows, more than 1 billion. What have they done so far? Just talk, discussion,.... Remember 2 years ago when senator of California wanted to put the name of Iran in that damn list, what did Iranian do? Just some petitions and some protest. Did anybody on be half of others utter Iranians's impression to that government or not. The answer is definitely no. This is just an example and I am not ganna bring more examples which all don't pop into my mind right now. Your example in the coffe shop is just a very good example for verifying this. Please judge based on the facts... [more at the permalink of the entry above]
Dear ... I don't know what, I don't think our argument is going anywhere since its continuation would end up in repeating our last remarks. So I am not gonna come. Instead I limit to critique your arguments to have a cohseive debate, and will go off. 1- You haven't mentioned based on what you put your argument about Iranians on. "Believe it or not, Iranians, including myself, are nor doers". Was it based on you and your observations? Personal observations don't count sometimes.I brought up my personal observations as side-comment too. 2- "Remember 2 years ago when senator of California wanted to put the name of Iran in that damn list, what did Iranian do?" Have you read my comment on the British protest? Have you read my comments on the number of Iranians being young in N. America, being first generation? Have you answered if there was... [more at the permalink of the entry above]
Dear Whoman, Again thanks for your note. I don't know you personally and I am not saying that you are active or not. Maybe you are the most active member of the first generation. I am not talking about the few percent who may be active. I am talking about the majority of us Iranians. Let me describe the fact: What you see is really feel it, see it and accept it. When you feel there is NO EFFECTIVE EFFORT has been dine, would you say I feel it? Whenever you see something (at least result of that) you could say "I see it". Have we seen any political progress in every aspect you wanna consider? Have we? Of course not. If yes, perhaps a little bit. But little bit will not do the job and we need to have more.
Dear no one, I was supposed to go off. But something has raised my curiosity.Please don't take any offense since I am sincerely curious.I want to have re-cap of what we discussed and see if I am fair. I argued that expecting too much of Iranians, a new, first generation, immigrant group with its relative small population as opposed to many other immigrant groups is not that fair. You're saying whatever Iranians may have as an excuse (the reasons I mentioned) it is not enough and more should be done. Can I ask you a question then? Why don't you start from yourself, stand up for yourself, be more vocal, and post YOUR NAME?
I need to clarify some points: 1- WhoMan, I agree with you that Canada was in a difficult position regarding Zahra Kazemi's case. But the fact that she had dual nationality does not necessarily mean that people can not setup a movement to follow up her case; for the same reason that many people around the world do not ignore murder of Palestinians, East Timorians, South Africans, Bosnians and so on; for the same reason the takes Green Peace people to the middle of the Pacific to stop the French from undertaking a nuclear test. 2- About the British protests: You seem to be either very pessimistic, or very impatient. The protests (not only in London, but all over the UK) had a lot of results; it did not stop the Brits going to war alongside with the US, but it had a big impact on everything. Resignation of... [more at the permalink of the entry above]
One more point: Mr/Ms/Mrs No-name mentioned the fact that the US president congratulates Iranian-Americans every Norooz. Yes that is true, but it is not because of Bush's love towards Iranians, it is because the efforts of a group of Iranians who have formed the "National Iranian American Council - NIAC" (http://www.niacouncil.org/). This are the most organization I have seen that is ran by Iranians. They are in constant contact with the government, prepare seminars, invite political figures from the government (such as Senators or even Mrs Albright), and also remind the White House when Norooz is coming. This is indeed a good examples of what "first generation" Iranian immigrants have done, but unfortunately it is small, and still unknown to very many Iranians in the US.
The 3rd sentence in my last post must be corrected as follows: "This is the most active organization I have seen that is ran by Iranians." :-)
Panther, I take your numbering to answer you back, and put everything BACK in the right context: 1- Agreed. People should do more now that the Canadian government can't go further than this. More on people in item #3. 2- I am niether pessimistic nor impatient. I totally understand your point. However, my response was in the context where we were discussing signing petitions and other actions of such nature would result immediately and push Kazemi's case. 3- You asked for statistics. Check the number of states in USA and see how many 1st generation immigrants got a high official post in the last 50 years. Try the same for the 2nd generation, 3rd, and find your up. My point was not about family economics. It is about knowledge of the new country's culture and language and on top of all these time factor. It takes time to be... [more at the permalink of the entry above]
Dear Mr. Whoman, Could you let us know what you have done as the first generation in the US? Did you leave Iran before 1968? I am just curious to know. I appreciate your response [FToI Editor: Dear annonymous commenter, Please avoid asking questions that can violate privacy of our commenters or be intimidating to them. This can violate the rules of FToI's comment policy. Thank you. ]