Kaveh, Thanks a lot for bringing up this issue. I actually wanted to write something about it, but I was so busy. It's really frustrating now. Every morning I check my email hoping that there is some good news from my friends who are stuck back home. ("stuck" is maybe not a good word to use, but is it something else?) I've heard that even some Reps and Senators have contacted US embassies on behalf of students and faculties who are waiting but they've been said that the source of the problem is in Washington. Unfortunately we can't do anything about it. (signing the petition may help though.)

I applied for US visa in April 03 to attend a conference in June. The visa was not ready in time and I missed the conference. That wasn't really a problem since a colleague presented the work and our manuscript published in the proceeding. The funny point is that as a curiosity I called the US consulate two weeks ago to enquire about my visa. The lady said that it is not ready yet please call next week!!! I wonder what kind of stupid process it is that takes 6 months for a visa?! These guys are really paranoid!

Believe it or not, it is not clear for most of Americans that visitors/immigrants contribute greatly to the United States. They don't see it as something that benefit both sides, people who come here and Americans who are born here. As a result, visa has been treated as a privilege that is given to foreigners, and they should not be complaining. Another factor is that there is no pressure mechanism on the State Dept or INS(now under Home Land Security Dept) to improve the visa system. Since people who suffer from the deficiencies do not have any political power to pressure the system to correct itself. Ok, there are universities and high tech companies who are not happy about the situation, but for them it is not as the first priority that needs to be answered. Also, in the current climate, it is very difficult to argue that in... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

yahya is right!! see what I found! ;-) "As the world economy becomes more globalized, the United States has become increasingly dependent on the skills of the international students who gain advanced degrees in the hard sciences." http://www-hoover.stanford.edu/publications/digest/022/skandera.html

Dear SG, What I meant in my comment was that the public think foreign immigrant are not useful not the people in academic institutions. However, there still exist inviduals in academic institutions that argue, using vague statistics, that foreign students don't benefit America: "And to whose benefit? A study by the National Academy of Sciences concluded that all of the immigration over the past few decades increased the income accruing to natives by less than $10 billion a year. Of that $10 billion contribution, very little ? less than $1 billion ? can be attributed to foreign students, who account for less than 2 percent of all permanent immigrants. The net gain to the country may be small ? but the higher-education industry can benefit substantially. Foreign students are an important part of the workforce in many universities. Wages and salaries in this sector are around $50 billion annually.... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

thanks to yaha for the article. something nice to note: "Professor Borjas was born in Havana, Cuba in 1950, and migrated to the United States in October 1962"

I think it would be better if the pettion is sent to US National academy of science instead of that long list.

I realize this impacts y'all directly, and that the actual administration of this policy leaves a lot to be desired (timeliness, etc.). However, as somebody who lives in Washington, I am impacted directly too and am more happy with them erring on the side of caution. The September 11 hijackers came to the US abusing the visa system, and it seems like common sense to bring more scrutiny to bear in this area.

Common sense yes. But there is a difference between indefinite policies and higher level of security as you have mentioned. Security is one thing [detailed and accurate backgroundchecks] and CAN be put into a framework instead of indefinite and elaborate beaurocracies that can always be fooled.

I guess I don't see the difference in your distinction. Could you explain your distinction in concrete terms of how it applies to the visa system?

Common Sense -> detailed and more accurate background checks, especially now with their unified system, this should be easier; It would be very good if they also put an "average time limit" on these processes and would be nice if they are accountable for it. That is what the RCMP(Royal Canadian Mounted Police, an FBI clone in Canada) does for background check routines. However, if I were American, from a nation [still] victim of terrorism, I would also prefer erring on the side of caution. I think those atrocities have caused a lot of individualism in the American Society to vanish, and people have become more conscious of their role in the society and their society as an entity that they have to protect. In a moral context this sounds good, but I wish [not that it should be, just wish] people [and not statesmen] would come to realize... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Dear Dan: I respectfully beg to differ with your broad generalization that the hijackers of September 11th had abused the US Visa system. First, a majority of hijackers were in the United States legally. Elements in the FBI had already warned against issuing visa for some of the hijackers and no one listened to them. You can basically to the US Congress's website and look at the testimonies for yourself. So there was a way of preventing the attacks, but "Arrogance of the United States" was the major perventer of it. Be ware that I am not blaming the victims for the crimes of the criminal, you can look at my views on this issue under: (http://freethoughts.org/archives/000123.html). I am asserting that the US officials failed to do their job properly and protect their citizens and I still believe they are still failing their citizens. The United States of America... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

I am sure many Muslim Iranians would raise objections with the usual [and overused and useless] examples from Quran against your last sentences. Nonetheless, it is good that you pointed to them.

Grand Vizier I sincerely accept your most gracious reminder; Your most noble cautionary intervention is noted. I hereby retract the overgeneralization regarding the last three lines of my previous comment.

I am an Iranian and I know Iranians up-close and I somehow find it hard to think of some dude who is both Iranian *and* willing to blow himself up for the cause of Islam, the way 9/11 terrorists did or Palestinian suicide bombers do. Can you?

I meant: Can you guys imagine such a person? It just doesn't add up!

SG and saoshyant, 20 years ago, there was not just one Iranian who was ready to blow himself up, but there were 500,000 of them. They would be given a hand grenade or sometimes nothing at all and would be asked to march to Iraqi frontlines during Iran-Iraq war in order to create fear and chaos in Iraqi frontline. Many of them would perish on mine fields before seeing a single Iraqi soldier. This was no problem for them because they were there to be a martyr. It was the sooner the better for them. We don't see any of them today. Not because Iranians today have some intrinsic tendency not to become a suicide bomber, simply because the circumstances have changed and the culture has changed significantly. Threats to the nation have reduced as well. However, I have to say that there are still people in Iran, quite... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Good points you raised, yahya. I remember those times that you are talking about when volunteers would go (or sent?!) to the mine fields during a war with an enemy that was supported by the US! I think I also understand what you mean by advising us not to compare ourselves with others so that we may be given easier visas. One problem you overlook, however, is that even prior to 9/11 the visa regulation for Iranians was quite long and frustrating. Almost half of my friends who tried to come to the US for graduate school prior to 9/11 would return home empty-handed from Cyprus, Dubai, and Turkey. (Is Dubai a city or a country? I never figured it out!) So now thanks to what *others* did, it's only become harder for us to argue for simplifying the issuance of visa for Iranians. The visa problem is not... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Well, Dear Yahya, You should be right in that but I just wondered Iranians could be less prone to do such thing, just because there are no reports of Iranian suicide bombers attacking American interests, nor have I heard of Iranian suicide bombers attacking Israeli interests (the Jewish Community Centre Bombing in Boenos Aires was just a bombing, not a suicide attack, point of information) I still do not think broad generalization are correct, so I retracted my previous comment. Now upon these exchanges, I have new questions. If becoming a suicide bomber is something as unpredictable that people would not even know they are suicide bombers until they are told, as we hear such stories from the Media, I am just wondering what kind of a screenging system can relatively immunize the US?

One of my problems with the visa regulations is its politicalization. The delays have little to do with the security. Many of you know that it is still much harder for Iranians to come here that citizens of the countries from whom 911 hijackers originated. And this has to do with the politicalization of the process. The State Dept considers visa as tool of diplomacy. When the relationship is not good with a certain country, it reduces the visa quota. This is done about Iran quite often. Many know that the difficulty of getting a U.S. visa changes by the season. Whenever there is some secret deal going on with Iranian government, it gets easier and whenever Iran-US relation is bad, getting visa becomes hard. This has to do with very faulty assumption that politicians have in the State Dept. They think if they punish the people then that... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Next time when we visit Iran, we might be able to get our visa in Iraq. It seems that US embassy has started working there. Apparently, Hoseein Khomeini got his visa there: Hossein Khomeini Comes to America From what I heard from people who visited Iraq from Iran recently, it takes $3 to go from Iran's border to Karbala, which is in middle-south of Iraq and motels cost $4 per night there. Considering the fact that Baghdad is closer to Iran's border the cost of travel might be even cheaper. This would make applying for visa much easier. There won't be a need to go to Dubai or Cyprus. And also you can get a free pilgrimage to Shiite holy sites:)

SG: AbuDhabi is regarded as the capital of the UAE, nonetheless Dubai is the home to one of its seven emirates and it is today the biggest free trade, and almost trade of everything, in the Forever Persian Gulf.

I don't know about you guys, but I personally prefer going to Afghanistan for getting my visa. Not only I can speak my language there, I could pay a visit in my way to Imam Reza (the "local" Shiite holy site), Omar Khayyam and Ferdowsi of Tus. :-)

I'm also Iranian, and I happen to know an "Iranian" who did blow himself up for some radical cause: "hoseyn e fahmide"

I have a question from those of you who live in US/Canada and have to deal with this "Visa Problem": [It's only for my own further knowledge, cause I've never been there and never had that problem...] Whats so special about living there? I mean, is it enough gain to make it worthy after all? (It should be, I guess!! Actually, all tickets to US seem to be one-way!)

Poor Hossein Fahmideh who blew himself up to save his country under Saddam Hussein’s attack and people commemorate him this way. Poor Hossein fahmideh who became one the many victims of mullah’s government propaganda during war...

Mehrad: I guess your question would be more difficult to answer in the case of the USA, but as regards Canada, *my* answer is a big `yes!'

I have a problem with the example of Husseine Fahmideh and I fail to find it a good example: Husseineh Fahmideh blew himself for a radical cause: defending his country and this happened in the very early stage of the war. Other so-called martyrs did do that for other reasons or reasons of exagerated magnitude, such as liberating Jerusalem after 1982, but not against Americans or Israelis, AGAINST THEIR FELLOW MUSLIM ARAB IRAQI ENEMY. Has any Iranian, or group of Iranians under the orders of the Islamic regime of Iran, known and/or accused of committing "suicide attacks" against Israel and/or the United States of America in general, and Israelis or Americans in particular? I do not think so, I have not heard even of one case reported by the Media or accusation raised by Israelis and Americans. I am now becoming more confident, I know of Arabs who have... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Suicide Bombing is an invention of Yasser Arafat and for a long time was a Palestinian heritage until their brothers in other Arabic lands also joined the camp. As all of us know, the Mullahs are a key factor in supporting suicide bombers and other terrorists in Lebanon and among Palestinians (and probably elsewhere)-but what is usually ignored is the role Palestinians played in producing 'political Mullahs' in Iran in the first place as well as training other terrorist band and gangs before the revolution, such as Mujahedin-e Khalgh and Fadayian-e Khalgh. So I agree with Saoshyant, suicide bombings are more or less an Arabic and Sunni Islamic phenomena and the beginning of it's Iranian/shiite fraction was also heavily influenced by them. BTW, isn't going to Iraq made forbidden for Iranians again, after the infiltration of IRI elements to Iraq to cause unrest (and God knows what else)? Duabi... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Let’s get one thing straight, lads. We are told that Hossain Fahmideh, a 13-year-old boy from Karaj, tied a grenade to his waist and then dived under an Iraqi tank. I'm not gonna argue whether this funny story is true or not, but for all I know, grenades are for THROWING, and it's utter madness to accompany a grenade under the enemy's tank! If that blasted fool was using the grenade to hit the Iraqis, then all he had to do was to release the detonator and then fling it at them with might and main!!?? It seems that Fahmideh has deliberately committed suicide, which is regarded as an unpardonable sin in his religion. And by killing himself he actually lost the opportunity to destroy any further tanks, didn't he? But he must be given some credit, though: he's pulled off the impossible feat of making Palestinian suicide bombers... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Fahmideh: an idiot?! I wouldn't go that far, Ali. I don't know about the exact circumstances of Hossein Fahmideh's death, but I remember the way the story was told during the war and how he was glorified by the leader of the revolution (Didn't he once say "our leader is the 13 year old kid who..."?) and the media and all the war-related propaganda. This actually (and ironically) proves exactly what I had claimed. That Iranians are not suicide bomber material: There was only one such case reported and it was not against civilians. It was an *exception*. Why don't we remember the names of all those non-Iranian suicide bombers who blew themselves up for their fanatical cause? Simply because there are too many of them! Again, let me ask you this: what are the chances of having an Iranian lad (thanks for British slang, Ali!) committing suicide for... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Mehrad asked (and I paraphrase): Is it worth the hassle to leave Iran and go to North America for studying or staying? If I had time I could write a little book about the pros and cons of living in America. (Others may even be able to write bigger books.) I'm surprised that Babak's answer to your question is an emphatic yes. I myself would be a lot more ambivalent, as I think most Iranians who live here are. When two or more Iranians meet in America, their topic of discussion gravitates towards whether Iran is "better" or America. We simply can't decide and I presume most of us go through the torture of making up our mind about this thorny issue. However, more often than not, the years pass and we stay, unable to make up our mind, and we take roots (family, new friends, children) and we... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

This makes me laugh out loud. An Iranian wishes to snap at the lack of freedom in the U.S. Surely there is another government which you could complain about. Surely someone from a region of government-sponsored intolerance and radical religious conservatism knows of another nation to take up a fight with. Surely you don't have the nerve, out of all the places in the world, to complain that the U.S. has a lack of freedom.

I read this posting very late so my notes may be a little bit late but anyway I am going to share them with you. I have recently come to the USA (to be exact I have been here only for 40 days). I have had some experiences that may relate to this topic. I guess the first thing I should say is the about the Visa process. Well I went to the consulate in Dubai had a less than a minute interview and they issued my Visa in less than 20 days!! I don’t know why but the same day they rejected many other students having admission from very good universities (I dare say best). So everything started fine. Since I have been here I have seen two completely different attitudes towards Iranians. In the airport (JFK) the officer in charge of the so called “Special Registration” nearly... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Who has mentionned lack of freedom? Read more, my dear Watson! ridiculo ipsa ridicula!

Dear ASDF: Pursuant to our Grand Vizier most gracious intervention, I must add that you, perhaps like many other people in the Western world, should immediately find who planned education in the area where you did your schooling. It is most probable that you are a victim of Nixon's underfunded educational system or Reagan's cuts in the 1980s. Reading comprehension is not just an ESL problem, there are a lot of people who have had 8 years of schooling in the Western world and cannot read. I will be more than happy to help you out with that, and I am not being sarcastic whatsoever. If your reading skills are good, I propose you start doing some meditation and/or Yoga instead. Watching Dr. Phil can most certainly be of help as well. If you do either of the above, working on your reading skills and/or gaining some skills in... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

As I said, Senior Grad, it's *my* answer. The basic reason for it is that I can't imagine living in the Iran I left 3 years ago any longer, particularly under the circumstances I left. In fact, I had my doubts until I went back after 15 months. In that 15-month period I would feel I missed many corners and streets of my home city of Tehran, and also many other beautiful places, from thick green jungles of north to the gray mountains of Alborz and Zagros to the hemispherical domes of Yazd by the desert. I still do miss some of those I mentioned above, you see. But when I went back in the Christmas holidays of 2001, I found out it wasn't the actual places I was missing, but their *memory*. I missed, and still do, not the space but the space-time event that I had registered... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

FYI, If you've not read it before, a congressman introduced a bill to expell all iranians with student or visitor visa from the US. http://www.iranianamericanpac.org/news/detail.php?str=yU2q5HqL4y7E6M7Y

I'm glad for you, Babak S, who have reached a stable condition so fast. If I were sure that I can live in a metropolitan city in North America as long as I would like to and pay a visit to my family back in Iran whenever I desired to, I too would surely rather stay here. But let me ask you this: Would you rather live the rest of your life in a god-forsaken small town in Saskatchewan or live in Tehran?! By asking this question, I'm just trying to suggest that one may not easily opt for one or the other alternative (i.e. living in Iran vs living abroad), because of the number of variables involved are too many. In any case, I think you should cherish the fact that at least *for now* you've reached a level of contentment. I think I sort of understand the... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

I wonder how come this discussion didn't come up after my posts! Just kidding! I feel the same as Babak about missing memories in places rather than places themselves. That’s what usually called “Nostalgia”. BTW, the usage of the word “we” is quite interesting in Mr. Senior Grad’s last comment (I hope he’s not generalizing). I don’t know where Mr. Senior Grad lives (my wild guess is DC), but where I happen to reside is not a big nor a small city in New England which has very nice café shops with river views (beside other things of course). Although I still like to live in a city like New York or San Francisco (and I day-dream about it too actually) or even Washington, but I’m quite happy with it and I think it suits my life as a graduate student. About Tehran, I don’t day-dream and memories I... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Do you really think this petition will change Bush's views and result in changes in the procedures? Remember he did not change his mind when all over the world people were screaming against the recent war! If I were to initialize a petition for this purpose, I would restrict it just to professors at US universities with a US citizenship, they can argue that their research is harmed by losing more and more Iranian students. Bush may listen to US citizens, who are defending their own interests.

Kaveh: I think you see the dilemma. If there is a time limit to the visa procedures then that is by its nature not erring on the side of caution. You go on to argue about the personal costs of increased or wrong-headed security measures, which seems like a useful exercise. Unfortunately, it's easy to measure the economic downside to an attack the size of 9/11 in the range of several hundreds of billions of dollars as whole and thousands of dollars for your average household, while it's difficult if not impossible to measure the full downside of reduced individualism and working with others for security. It's difficult for both the experts and ordinary voters. But given the circumstances, myself and other voters are likely to give the administration a lot of leash to make policy and implementation on security. Currently, that leash is indicated by a 70% approval... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

saoshyant: Even if only a portion of the hijackers were here because of visa abuse, the political fact is that this attack happened in large part because of visa abuse. This is clear when you remember that one of the hijackers obtained a visa renewal a half year after he did his deed. But visas in particular and immigration in general are systems that were never meant, funded, nor designed to run well. This odd situation is due to the fact that the American public is hopelessly split on these issues and has been that way for decades (maybe it has been throughout history, I don't know). The political solution is that the federal government doesn't check up on these things, nobody tells the federal government about it, and the federal government studiously avoids telling the people any details. For instance, try to find me a paper that includes... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Dan schmelzer: 1) Could you please cite the Census Bureau paper that you have cited. If there are 10,000,000 illegal aliens in the US today, then I suppose I really need to see it becaue the United States of America is an open society, democractic, and transparent (my following citation is an evidence to this belief), so if you have found that paper that you say there are 10,000,000 illegal aliens in the US. 1) I really wish that you responded my inquiry more directly. It really saddens me when I see someone who tries to represent average Joe/Jane of the United States of America (correct me if I am wrong, because perhaps you are just reflecting about yourself and you are not representing ohters) fails to answer my question directly (because I stereotypically tend to believe Americans are very forthright): a) you have failed to directly respond to... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Dear Dan, Living only a few months in London, I've faced two "Terror Alert" both of them while waitng for an underground service. Having experienced this little about terror (comparing to horrible situation of 9/11), I can feel your concerns as an American citizen to some extent. But there is one point about the 70% approval that, I think, has been left unspoken in your comment: Is it not wise for this huge ratio of US population to trace the possible footprints of their own government in this tragedy? Then, devoting billions of dollars to security sector and yet investing(!) billions more to create more enemies might seem a bit unwise, specifically in the eyes of contented taxpayers!

(1) Here's a WaPo reference, showing that the federal government loses track of millions of people--or chooses not to learn of them in the first place--with the full cooperation of individual citizens and groups of citizens. http://earthops.org/immigration/underestimated-2001.html Please note that I didn't care much about these contradictions either. As long as the books were reconciled every 10 or 20 years by a citizenship amnesty, things were going fine by me. It didn't matter to me whether people overstayed their tourist visa and came to settle in the US. (2) I only (and can only) represent myself, not the average Joe. Rereading my posts, I don't think that I put myself up as representing the average Joe, but did reference poll numbers to show what he thinks. It is true that I put in my comments to represent an American-bred, different view than many of those already put forward, because... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Mehrdad: Perhaps I didn't make myself sufficiently clear. I went one step further and blamed Americans themselves (and myself) for the past lax security attitudes in the federal government. Would the American people have accepted a third-rate military like we accepted a third-rate visa and immigration system? Not at all, and that's why we don't have a third-rate military and we have a third-rate visa and immigration system. As for creating more enemies with our tax dollars, personally I don't think we can do much about it while having an active foreign policy. It comes with the territory. But I guess this is getting slightly off the topic at hand.

Something that missing in these arguments: 1. Every country has the right to issue or deny a visa to citizens of other countries, and has the right to do it in its own way. 2. What bothers me most is the process of fingerprinting, taking mugshots and several hours of interrogation upon entering the country. It shows that the goverment does not trust its own system of screening and intelligence and its state department officials. This means several months of screening and background cheking before issuing visa is nothing but a show. Or may be the fingerprinting story is designed to humilate an individual because of his ethnic or religious background. 3. Issuing visa and fingerprinting, etc. upom arrival in this system means you are guilty (or a criminal) even if the opposite is proved.

Senior Grad- Well the point I am trying to make is that in Fahmideh's case, the government here may have simply made up a story or just blown it out of all proportion. I wonder who has actually related the incident? Were there any eyewitnesses? Not likely, because in that case they might have tried to teach him how to use grenades, rather than standing back and having a good laugh as the poor bastard hit the tank with grenades under his belly. Or was it the Iraqi military who reported Fahmideh's heroics??!! Maybe it was Khomeini himself (or his ghost… you never know with these mullahs) who witnessed and recorded the scene? Putting two and two together, something stinks about the whole story, don't you think so? The answer to your question is a big fat NO, there aren't any Iranians who would blow themselves up for any... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Sorry that I failed to response in a timely fashion, Ali Mahani. I was on a vacation from Free Thoughts. Whoever you are, you are a very smart kid, Ali. I cannot deny it. It's just too bad you have read too much Sadegh Hedayat. ;-) I agree with you that the whole story of Hossein Fahmideh may have been just pure baloney, or the government may have made a mountain out of a mole hill, so to speak, to lubricate the wheels of its war propaganda machine (I'm just making up idioms as I go, so don't take these seriously). What I specifically didn't like about your comment was how you talk about the "poor bastard"! There have been many victims (victims of their own youth, idealism, ignorance, blind faith, you name it) during the Iran-Iraq war. I don't think you were ever with them under the Iraqi... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

It can't be denied that the US immigration policies are still one of the most humane in the world, despite all the noise made about them. Just compare it with the Europeans' -look at the german refugee camps for example. However dear Dan, the point is that the visa problems for iranian students did not (pre sept 11) and do not still address the security issues. In many cases they just have no basis. 10 students go to the same embassy the same day, 6 get a visa 4 don't. Why not? what was the difference? nothing real. It seems actually as though the counsoler has decided on giving visas only to a certain percentage of applicants and is just filling his daily ration. There are many such tales if you ask Iranian students. Even today the main issue to address in an interview is your financial status and... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

My dear Senior Grad There seems to be a bit of a misunderstanding here. “Poor bastard” is an idiomatic expression with a meaning similar to that of “poor thing” or “poor fellow”; at any rate it’s a jocular phrase used for showing sympathy and doesn’t imply being born on the wrong side of the blanket. And no, I don’t regard myself as Hedayat or Idiot reincarnated: I am a good few years younger than Hedayat and a good few years older than Fahmideh… unless you mean that famous Idiot by Dostoyevsky (Prince Myshkin) …LOL --To AIS Well I never meant to glorify the current regime or the principles it claims to stand for; but let’s give the devil its due: At one time Iran was invaded by Iraqi troops. Some people simply packed up and fled the country, others cited all sorts of excuses under the sun to avoid... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Ali Mahani, If you're 33, as you claim to be, then you are almost Fahmideh's age! Just imagine. If he had survived the war, who knows, he might very well be among us writing comments for Free Thoughts.

AIS: I think it's difficult to judge how effective the system with regard to security specifically for Iranian people. I will easily believe the worst, but we haven't had any 9/11-style attacks from Iranians, now have we? :-) Of course, this goes both ways, in that it supports the argument that Iranians are not predisposed toward these attacks. But how can accuse The Great Satan of being paranoid. ;-) In any event, there are many reasons other than security why a visa might be denied or approved. Your post doesn't seem to entertain that fact.

To make clearer, your post seems to discount the possibility that the multiple-purposed nature of the visa system could be part of a good overall system for security.

Ali Mahani: It is easy to blame the politicians -in this case the mullahs - for everything, but they wouldn't have had the power to enforce their policies without fanatic idiots doing it for them.To tell you the truth I prefer some the prgmatic mullahs to their idealist followers anyway. and in case you forgot the real war ended after the Iraq asked for cease fire and Saudi Arabia .... The rest of it was an ideological war for liberationg Iraq and Qods ...and the world! As I said before, I see no glory in fanaticisms. And if you really need to know I have a much deeper respect for those who fled or brought up excuses than those fanatics who went to war for their paradise. Besides if you think Iraq could have annexed parts of Iran to itself without the international community doing anything about it or... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Senior Grad Yes in that sense Fahmideh and I are about the same age, but problem is, that fellow didn't live to the age of 33: he died when he was 13. And what's your obssession with my age, for Christ's sake? What makes you think I am at least 50 years old?

Ali Mahani: I just think you are more mature than your age. :->

AIS: As much as I would like to agree with you, newspaper accounts like the following lead me to believe that extra vigilence is warranted with regard to Iran. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21493-2003Oct13.html

The same visa problems existed before Al Qaida had a camp in Iran. Besides I told you of how people are given and refused visas from a group of people who get interviewd in a day, of twins to only one of whom visa was given,husbands and wives who get only one visa, people who are denied visa in one embassy and then get it in another. Believe me, it's a hell of a mess! A side issue about the article: I am really frustrated with this difference that is still being made between Khatami people and the 'hardliners'. When are people gonna accept that they are all in this together?! How come Khatami had power over security forces in the case of chain killings of intellectuals? that was a real competition for power, that's why. Don't you people in the US see that IRI is playing with you... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

would you teach me your language

i need to ask the american embassy in abudhabi about my visa. i lost my passport while im trying to renew it.and i got a new passport but i dont have my visa printed on the new passport.so i need to know how can i get a new visa print because its essential for me ,im in houston texas.i need it to get a driver license and an identification card.im afraid if i go to abudhabi i wont be able to go back to houston.so plz if someoen can help me with this problem write me back at my email (libro22@hotmail.com)

"I wonder what kind of stupid process it is that takes 6 months for a visa?! These guys are really paranoid!" Yes, well when 3000 INNOCENT people are killed in one fell swoop by Islamofacist militants, many of whom who were "students" I guess that is the source of the paranoia. Why don't you all apply to study in Islamic countries if coming to the US is such a pain? Try Saudi Arabia, they just LOVE visitors and give visas very freely. ;-) A Jewish survivor of the Holocausts once said: "If someone says they are going to kill you—believe them." We believe that some Muslims want to kill us–regardless of whether they are Arabs or Persians or Malaysians or whatever sorts of Muslims. While all Muslims are not terrorists, ALL Islamic terrorists are Muslims. And let's be honest, Iran did, and still does sponsor Islamic terror just like... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Just a note Wessie, to many Iranians, but not all, but many indeed, Islam does not come first. It doesn't even come. How many Iranians have you met that told you that? As an Iranian I feel ashamed to be categorized based on my parents' religion and not based on what I am -at least what I think I am! If you talk like this, don't be surprised if "small time devils" like Osama call for death to infidels; it is exactly "the open-mindedness" that differentiates between the true devotees to a democratic society and believers in an organized religion like some factions of Islam, Judaism and Christianity. Anyway I hope that you would never regret the current US policies, policies that I hope, at least might stop terrorist attacks on the US soil... I really hope, but I keep my reasons to myself for that.

Loose Can: I find the above post very confusing. Could you re-phrase it so that it is comprehensible? You appear to be saying two things at once. You seem to believe that one cannot be religious and democratic at the same time, while I believe that Christianity and most other religions EXCEPT Islam are completely compatible with democracy and pluralism. BTW—I do regret many of the policies of the current administration. I believe they will do little but encourage more Islamic terrorism. Wessie

"some factions of Islam, Judaism and Christianity": "Factions" Ms. Wessie not all of them. Even now there are "Christians" that when they see a Jew on the public transit, they would inform him that "servants are not allowed on the bus" and that was witnessed in Switzerland only 2 years ago. I can easily put all "Abrahamic" religions in one basket. In fact Islam is so close to the "Telmud"ic Judaism that even Muslims get astonished by the similarities. And that tips a lot about the origin of Islam... Please look at my wording: I was talking about the "organized religion"s not personal or moral religions or "ways of life". How much do you know about Islam anyway? Have you looked at any modern scholarly text on Islam? I am not talking the ones written by leftist ideologues, the ones written by conservative scholars, and there are many of... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

“How much do you know about Islam anyway? Have you looked at any modern scholarly text on Islam? I am not talking the ones written by leftist ideologues, the ones written by conservative scholars, and there are many of those... and then I have to add [contradicting myself of course] that you will come back to the original conclusion that Islam in its contemporary form, is the least compatible of all religions with democracy and pluralism! Nonetheless I get a feeling that your statement is not very well grounded; that's all, I agree with you in that!” I know a great deal about Islam and Christianity—despite not being a Christian or a Muslim. I would venture to guess that I know more about Islam than you do about Christianity and I may know more about Islam as well. I have read about Islam all of my adult life as... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Wessie, as the author of the post I just received your comment in email and was astonished at the degree of hostility you show against Muslims in your last paragraph. I understand that many Americans [and in fact people from around the world and even in Iran] are upset with Muslims, but I think helping fellow human beings regardless of their religion and despite diplomatic hostility is an act of courage not stupidity. By the way there is no one living in tents from the previous Earthquake in Iran, well... I am from the region and have never heard such a thing. However, instead of encouraging hostilities in the region by extending their military arm, the Iranian government COULD have done something about Earthquake prevention. Please do not generalize without impunity and I hope that this comment is not misinterpreted.

Kaveh et al: Wessie's claims are based upon a lack of understanding as to how many muslims have already started viewing the Koran in terms other than the ones shaped by reactionary and extremist zeal. Today, those who believe that the Koran cannot be read ahistorically are many. The unfortunate fact is that they cannot express themselves in ways that the radicals who are in power can. In his account, Wessie appears to be unware that amongst many Muslims the word of the Koran cannot be read narrowly. In fact, from the followers of Soroush in Iran, to the followers of Hassan Hanafi in Egypt, and the followers of the modernist democratic movement of Islam in Indonesia, a reformist wave has been very active in challenging the traditional readings of the Koran. If some visible and violent few have used a Wahabi and traditionalist reading of the Koran to... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

”Wessie, as the author of the post I just received your comment in email and was astonished at the degree of hostility you show against Muslims in your last paragraph. I understand that many Americans [and in fact people from around the world and even in Iran] are upset with Muslims, but I think helping fellow human beings regardless of their religion and despite diplomatic hostility is an act of courage not stupidity.” Kaveh, what hostility? That is your perception and not my reality. I believe in being my “brothers’ keeper” and certainly we should have helped the poor people of Bam— and we did. America always helps—always! But, the bottom line is that there is evidence that the state of Iran is using our goodwill—once again—to cover for terror activities. That, IMHO, makes us stupid to again be taken in. Certainly the mullahs believe Americans in general and... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Wessie, do you seriously believe that body search in airports is of the same order of magnitude as being condemned to live in a prison like from every side just for having been born there? What would you do if you happened to be born an Iranian yourself instead of an American, or the other nationality you had before becoming American? I'm really curious, can you put yourself in our shoes for a moment and see what it feels like? Can you? Did you happen to choose your birth place out of your cunning vision somehow? pardon the sarcasm, but some of what you are saying here just automaticaly brings it on.

Iranian Student (AIS): The question is not just that Wessie is a biased and brain-washed American or Iranian, or both or from where else, or Jewish or Christian or Muslim. It is also that he is not interested in responding to the challenges in debate like any other radical/extremist person. He would not like to respond to the challenge concerning Moffaz as I put. He says the Scandinavians are not going to be a threat because, by way of implication and explicit mentioning, they are white Nordic and Lutheran Protestant. Then: Is he suggesting that one of the bravest officers of the IDF who participated in the Entebbe operation had to be treated like that just because he was born in Iran? He also does not want to say why other Protestants in the US are so violent and/or aggressive in their approach towards women, children or minorities? He... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

“do you seriously believe that body search in airports is of the same order of magnitude as being condemned to live in a prison like from every side just for having been born there?” Iranian Student: I believe that every people get the government they deserve. As to your mean-spirited remark about the “choosing” my birth place. . . You have no idea what sort of trial I might have gone through to ultimately end up in the U.S. Don’t assume that your suffering is the only suffering there has ever been! The suffering in the land from which I came was also self-inflicted, just as the suffering in Islamic lands is self-inflicted by Muslims. Successful democracies take responsibility for their failings. I believe it is the personal responsibility of Muslims to free themselves. It is not the responsibility of the US government to spend blood and treasure to... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

“The question is not just that Wessie is a biased and brain-washed American or Iranian, or both or from where else, or Jewish or Christian or Muslim. . . . radical/extremist person . . . Wessie does not have enough knowledge in this area and/or is brain-washed and completely biased in his judgements.” Oakman, I have told you before I am a woman!. I have already answered the points that you again regurgitate—above. If you cannot comprehend these then you might want to see a neurologist about those non-firing synapses. ;-) Your arrogant and disrespectful demeanor, as well as your ad hominem attacks and name calling are typical of many Middle Easterner males who are clueless about democracy and the responsibilities that come with living in one. Your refusal to admit that it is Islam and not the West that is responsible for the misery in Muslim lands is... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Wessie, I am not here to argue. I am really curious, see this for me is a real conscience problem. I can not convince myself that a country like the US and its free citizens, living in a society that has experienced centuries of enlightenment and has absorbed the new and deep insights of continuous scientific and social revolutions SHOULD really behave fundamnetally different from countries and cultures that are still in their dark ages. Don't take me wrong, i don't support for a moment claims like the imperialist west and America are the true cause of evil in the world with their greed to take over and feed upon others and similar left shit, but I DO believe that people who have the good fortune of living, either by birth or choice, in a free and democratic and prosperous society in a world of madness,ignorance and poverty in... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

You see I am still naive enough to beleive in Saadi: Children of Adam are parts of the same body For in their creation, they are of the same essence If one part is harmed by the hands of fate The other parts can't rest in peace If you are indifferent to the plight of others You do not desreve to be called a human (He was a much adored poet during the enlightenment period in europe by the way.)

Oops again! on the comment above please replace 'Should behave fundamentaly the same' in the third sentence. (damn it)

Wessie, "As to the body searches at airports and all the inconveniences we now suffer the world over as a result of 9/11, I hold Muslims responsible for that. Whom do you hold responsible?" I hold ISLAM responsible for that.

A very well written article: http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/s/shirazi/04/shirazi010804.htm (I got the link from the blog Pejmanesque) Oh, and Wessie unlike you I totally support the present administrations policies after 9/11 as both effective and humane.

To get back to the subject of this thread: Recent outpourings of Khatami's wisdom: "We have signed the additional protocol and if the Americans have good will now they should take back their words and also accept our legal right to have peaceful nuclear technology under the supervision of the International Atomic Energy Agency." THIS IS WHAT WE GET WHEN WE VOTE FOR THESE ANIMALS!

"Oh, and Wessie unlike you I totally support the present administrations policies after 9/11 as both effective and humane." I only support some, AIS. I have a problem with the "Enemy Combatants" (as well as American citizens) being held without trial. That is now going to the Supreme Court. However, our attacking al Qaeda in Afghanistan as well as taking out Saddam is OK with me. I do wish that Bush had been more diplomatic and enlisted more allies, because this is costing the U.S. a fortune. The WHOLE rest of the world should pay for security! I do think this will change as we go along. Our trillion dollar deficit will soon endanger the world's economies—which is just exactly what ObL wanted. As for the Islamic bomb. =:o I have no doubt whatsoever that the Islamofascists will use it some time in the near future. Why oil rich... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

For all of you long-suffering visa seekers, here is a bit of dark humor while you are waiting: Scenes From A Sad Airport Welcome to America. Please give us the finger. Smile for the camera. Now get the hell out http://www.sfgate.com/columnists/morford/

I don't know whether it is related, but I thought it was pretty funny: "An American Airlines pilot was arrested at Sao Paulo International Airport after making an obscene gesture while being photographed by Brazilian immigration officers." http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3543875&thesection=news&thesubsection=world

Quick follow-up: Funny thing is, if such a thing had happened in Iran the pilot probably wouldn't be bothered at all. the reason is simple: many Iranians don't know the meaning of Western gestures. Look this up: http://nonverbal.ucsc.edu/gest.html

"I don't know whether it is related, but I thought it was pretty funny" Well, Majesty, the Brazilians are pretty pissed that we now have enacted such stringent security measures to "dare" to finger-print and photograph people. LOL Therefore, they are going to "get" anyone they can. They should simply employ the same methods and assist in the apprehension of international terrorists. The people who are not criminals or terrorists have nothing to fear from fingerprints or photos. Of course, the problem in Brazil is that almost everyone has to do a bit of "shady" business because of the corrupt system. Perhaps that is the reason they are all so wound up about being finger printed and photographed? ;-) As to "obscene" gestures in other cultures. Yesterday I was in a restaurant and when the waitress came up to ask, "How is lunch?" I made the high sigh, (thumb... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Good! At least we're now clear that you don't have any animosity against *Iranians* or other brands of fundamentalist *Muslims* alone! You think even thong-wearing utterly decadent "Brazilians are pissed" at America. Which is most probably true. Based on those comments of yours that I have read, you seem to me to have an everybody's-against-the-and-inferior-to-West/America kind of mentality. Other people just don't get democracy and are doomed. "Happy me who have made it to the center of civilization!" Get over it, already. People are people. You were simply "lucky" to have been born in the West and have happened to have had the means to immigrate to the U.S. You cannot possibly claim any credit in making America the way it is. Just take a moment and ask yourself where you could have ended up, had you been born in a third world country. You could've been living in... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Dear Ms. Wessie, Just one point. You mentioned that Islamists have killed thousands of innocent people.you're right but you claimed that other religions haven't. but forgive me if I ask you what in your opinion were the Serbs doing in Bosnia? My point is that people no matter what their religion and/or race or country of origin is can be extremist. believe me!

". . .You think even thong-wearing utterly decadent "Brazilians are pissed" at America. Which is most probably true. . . . Of course it's true, Majesty. They have said so. Can you blame them with the current administration's policies? ". . . you seem to me to have an everybody's-against-the-and-inferior-to-West/America kind of mentality. Other people just don't get democracy and are doomed. "Happy me who have made it to the center of civilization!" Actually, Majesty, I used to care that they "got democracy" for many, many years—until I finally saw that they are never going to help themselves. They are just going to continue Islamic terror. Now, I could care less what they do or how they live or whether their women are oppressed—as long as they stay on their side of the fence! ;-) It does not bother me one whit that Muslims or whoever do not embrace... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Wessie, You have clearly passed the line. Be warned that if you continue to make racist comments and spew hate, you will loose the chance to ever make yourself heard here. You may shrugg your shoulders as you wish, but to use one of your favourite catch phrases: "your rights end where my nose starts." So use it properly, or lose it!

"You have clearly passed the line. Be warned that if you continue to make racist comments and spew hate, you will loose the chance to ever make yourself heard here. You may shrugg your shoulders as you wish, but to use one of your favourite catch phrases: "your rights end where my nose starts." So use it properly, or lose it!" I'm a bit mystified here. If I criticize any other religion, Christianity in particular, as I have many times and I criticize the US administration as I have many times—that is OK. But, if I point out that Muslims have failed states (a truth) and that they perpetrate terror against innocents (a truth) then that is "hate" and "racist"? I have not named ANY race! I have said that Muslims breed, support, fund and export Islamic terror world wide. That is a fact and I support those facts... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

I don't understand "warning to wessie" comment. FToI has a comment policy and its editors should enforce it. Anybody else who has complaints has to contact the editorial board.

"The restoration of religion to the sphere of the personal, its depoliticization, is the nettle that all Muslim societies must grasp in order to become modern. The only aspect of modernity interesting to the terrorists is technology, which they see as a weapon that can be turned on its makers. If terrorism is to be defeated, the world of Islam must take on board the secularist-humanist principles on which the modern is based, and without which Muslim countries' freedom will remain a distant dream." Continually denying as to whether Islamic terrorism or the lack of visas is about Islam will get everyone no where. Just as more jihadi attacks against innocents will get you even fewer visas. In my opinion, any Muslim who supports Islamic terror with his silence and zakat donations is culpable for the crimes of Islamic terrorists. You might want to review the articles below while... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

Hey Wessie, I liked your comment about Muslims admitting to what is done in the name of their religion and the violent nature of many passages in their scripture. Interestingly I saw "Unbearable Lightness of Being" Last Night and there is a scene [of course taken from the book] in which Tomasz compares the apologetic nature of the Soviets after the Stalin era and their claims that they didn't know about those atrocities to the story of Oedipus Rex and the fact that after he [Oedipus] commits all those crimes, unknowingly, when he finds out, and also finds out what has happened to his people, under the pressure of guilt, carves his own eyes out. The eyes that failed to see... Muslims, if there is to be any hope for them, shall see or someone else might come and carve their eyes out for them.

One of my favorite movies. Odd, I have thought of that movie the last few days. Interesting that you mention the analogy Grand Vizier. :-) If I recall correctly it was columnist Thomas Friedman who recently stated that the Soviet Union met its demise because the US and the Soviets agreed on what was shameful. Clearly some Muslims don't agree on the shamefulness of suicide jihad. They are "humiliated" that the US has deposed Saddam Hussein, but are not shamed by his atrocities. Muslims are "humiliated" that their women are not permitted to wear the veil in France, but are not shamed by the fact that half of the Muslim population—women—don't have any more rights than a coddled pet. I always find this sort of reasoning, well—shameful. "Let us put aside the literary phrase `We are brothers but others are dividing us,' ""We in Iraq and elsewhere are not... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

I good come back to wise comments, Wessie! Hopefully you'll stay there. I second your opinion in your conclusion.

There seems to have been quite a bit of "wrestling" with Ms. Wessie going on during the past few days. Too bad I missed all the controversy. One of the columns under a Hamed's writing was actually closed by the time I came back, so I couldn't leave this comment there! I guess I'll read all the debate later some time. Hmmm. Or maybe not. I don't think Wessie's comments were outright offensive (the ones I read), but she clearly failed to show any sympathy whatsoever towards fellow human beings, Iranians and Muslims in particular. I would describe her simply as a "pain in the neck". You can't confront her with logic, because she has a one-track mind, and in spite of her apparent knowledge and her purportedly scholarly background, she obviously lacks an open mind and an ability to see things from different perspectives.

Well, Senor, I have to agree with you on this. Whether or not we are Moslem (and some of us are not), whether or not we are critical of certain aspects of life in our place and times (almost all of us are), whether or not we are marginalized as women, or profiled as single-young-men-not-traveling-in-business-class, we can aspire to be gentlemen in the interest of scholarly discourse. Is it Aristotle who said "the unexamined life is not worth living?"

Comment moved to WessLog.

Excellent! Let everyone have his say—away from us. Marginalizing the truth tellers, just like the Islamic world has marginalized itself and is isolated from civilization. The Islamic world continues to have problems listening to the truth about itself. [shrug] No problem for the free world. Muslims and their supporters will deny until they change things—or destroy us all. Cassandra

Wessie, Cassie, and other potential truthsayers, Will you be responsible, if any of the authors of this website, once returning to Iran, or just for a short visit, finds him/herself under threat of prison/torture because of what YOU said on their comment sections? People write their stuff here, under their real names, with responsibility with respect to their future. Holding interenet journalists responsible for other people's comments in Iran has happened before and there is no reason why it won't happen again. Why do you think these guys have a disclaimer and so and so... Are they afraid of FBI? Hell, No. They are afraid of Shariatmadaris. That is why no violent or aggressive methods is preached here. Mind you, if you are born of Muslim parents, denouncing Islam or any of the main Islamic teaching is automatically punishable by death and according to some there's no need for... [more at the permalink of the entry above]

CW: I think you don't realzie that Wessie's comments are still accessible, they are just in the virtual parallel universe of truth telling that will set all people's souls free REACHABLE THROUGH A HYPERLINK! You can always double-click to reach there and enjoy the virtual reality of "WE ARE RIGHT EITHER WAY! AND REGARDLESS...!

Moved to WessLog!

After receiving more than 100 comments I got finally tired of reading these comments posted as emails. I apologize to you all, and will close the comment section. Please email me, if you have any concern, or unsaid words, Thanks.