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January 13, 2006

Listen to the Führer!
Kaveh Khodjasteh  [info|posts]

Dresden.jpg
This is an example from history. Pathetic prose that were written by Adolf Hitler during his jail time were revised, rewritten, and edited and were finally published in 1925, well before the German Nazi party came to power through political maneuvering and elections in 1933. After World War II, there were many who remembered that Hitler had indeed declared the inevitability of the catastrophes and tragedies that came out of the Third Reich since the book was published.

While it took Hitler eight years after taking power to actually issue a government decree [Nacht und Nebel Erlass] that formally legalized Nazi organizations actions in dislocating Jews from their properties, the seed of murderous hatred was evident in the spoken word and actions of the Nazi party for as long as the party could be remembered. In contrast to the spoken words, the anti-semitic actions did not make the news in Germany as the state controlled the media and foreign media was banned after the war began in 1939. Hate speech and propaganda, for many Germans, remained only ideological rants that they would take a bit everyday with their daily bread.

Hitler did succeed in killing and dislocating of the jews and many other racial and social groups. He was also very successful in destroying most of Europe and millions of other lives which were not covered in the Nazi propaganda.

Not listening to their people seems to be normal for most politicians but why don't people listen to what their politicians so plainly say?

Comments
Shahram Kholdi at January 15, 2006 05:10 AM [permalink]:

Pefect timing! Thanks for this Kaveh!

Intentional deaf is a popular social coping mechanism vis-a-vis despotism. For the common/average person such a response is unwitting and reinforced by engaging in Kitche table discussions where "Jews are ruling the world". If anyone, truly and unhypocritically reflects upon how many such conversations s/he has witnessed throughout his/her life, the extent of the existence of such prejudice exhibits itself arguably well.

Worse are those who oppose such rhetoric and yet wittingly propose, in the name of not reading too much into such official hate mongering statements, that we should not even take such hate-speechseriously. I, for one, have been adamantly outspoken against such exhibitions of hate in the public domain, and against those who trivialize to free certain societies from the possible ensuing collective guile. Consequently, the other and equally valid, explanation,for the collective intentional deaf to the official hate-mongering public statements/propganda is the existence of a strong and common underlying anti-semitism in that "given" society.

Often, such a society does not even listen to itself, and in the end, it is all the outsiders who are "more" responsible for her misery. No sense of collective guilt about standing against hate-speech often results from a failure to establish a sense of collective and mutual responsibility. In one sentence, such a society is definitely not "a civil society" as of yet.

Germans were/are collectively and intergenerationlly guilty, not just because of their prejudiced sympathy with such a anti-Semitic culture, as you aptly put, but because of their failure to hold the hate mongers accountable as a result of the existence of such strong anti-Semitic feelings that trivialized the scope and intensity of such hate-mongering. Such failure to hold oneself, a society, accountable implicated them in the historical collective responsibility for a later disaster, for which they have paid so dearly so far

Let me finish with an awkward point: let's hope this will not be the destiny of other peoples whose leaders might at some point use any means, any tools, any weaponse to do so, when they have well gotten rid of any moderate elements in their midst, and such a possibility is always there.

disclaimer: was written too early in the monrning ;)

An Iranian Student (AIS) at January 15, 2006 11:28 PM [permalink]:

Very good points Shahram. I agree.

An Iranian Student at January 15, 2006 11:37 PM [permalink]:

BTW, have you by any chance read "Velayat-e faghih" by a certain ayatollah way before 1979 when he became Imam in a certain country?
You know the one in whose steps the so called "reform" movement was always moving forward? The one who no "reformist" can ever go beyond, in the words of the crippled so-called "brain" behind that glorious "reform" movement, a head of intelligence agency, a murderer himself, just one or two months ago?
Funny. :)

Shahram Kholdi at January 16, 2006 03:00 PM [permalink]:

Dear AIS,

Your mastery in stirring up some unpleasant memories is exceptionally fascinating!

I am sure there are many out there who die to see you outwitted. Yet, whatever remedy they shall seek would be in vain, in that you force them to revisit the past they have long tried to remember differently; you hold them accountable by sticking to the past as it was; and they hate you for that. Reassertion of this much cherished past as they wish might heal their psychological illness, but it will not salvage the subjugated people; as they abetted and aided so fearlessly and faithfully with the establishment the republic that rentiered religion so religiously.

The dear price they, the reformists, are paying, with so much tear and blood, is no compensation for thousands of innocent lives that were lost in the aftermath of the revolution, and post-revolution, in war and post-war. It is not even a compensation for almost a million of that same nation who were forced to exile. Such grave injustices cannot be remedied at all, and indeed they cannot be remedied by the hardship the reformists are being subjected to.

Thou shall remember all the liberals and conservatives who sided with the Nazis and in the end were sent to the same concentration camps, and death camps, in which the innocent Jews died. Thou shall fear the same destiny for those who abetted in the commission of injustices to the weakest. No surprise that they shall be punished for such abetting first and foremost; not for their crime was greater than the principals of those crimes, but because they prostituted their blind faith to enjoy the pleasure of righteousness fully. And fully, they shall pay their dues to justice in tear and blood, we all witness in shock and awe.

Behold! A nation might pay for the crimes, arrogance, and ambitions of others, that they now preach as that nation’s right, and shall you be remembered of other nations who paid for the crimes of their leaders in violating the laws of war and international treaties, so gravely, tragically, and dearly in Dresden, Leipzig, Hamburg, Tokyo, Nagasaki, and Hiroshima!

Let’s pray that such shall not happen to this innocent nation whose weaknesses have been too many and strengths too few, to rise to the cause and remove the criminals!

Let’s hope that Saint Vladimir become the Patron Saint of the Land of the Hidden Imam! May you Saint Vladimir save the robbers who have not just once, but many time, have set afire the property they have wished to plunder, along with the true residents of the house!

Let’s hold no one accountable but the apologist who rises to hold all responsible, accountable, and yet s/he fails to be the first to rise up and condemn the oppressor unequivocally and transparently.

Amen….and so forth….

PS: Since I do not pray, can somebody pray on my behalf. I will pay for that. Just be reasonable OK? Thank you!

Shahram Kholdi at January 18, 2006 09:10 PM [permalink]:

Well, it seems nobody took me my invitation for praying so seriously. However, some cartoonist somewhere has been praying that some lunatic leader to be shut up!

Despotism has been one of the famous origins of politeness. For such polite people, if they are taken to task, the find it more civil not to comment at all, so they too keep it quite (or is it that the fear of their leaders has shut them up?). In either case, Saint Vladimir appears to be working to save the Land of the Hidden Imam! Good Lord!

An Iranian Student (AIS) at January 19, 2006 04:07 AM [permalink]:

Indeed he is. Indeed.

yawn at January 19, 2006 04:38 PM [permalink]:

yawn.....RRRR...
rrrrrrrrrrr..RrRrrRRr.....
RRRRRRRRr....RRrrrRRRrrrrrrrrrr..
RRrrrrr

nazer at January 19, 2006 08:50 PM [permalink]:

I think Shahram Kholdi's comments don't make sense. Most Iranians do not like this regime and do not agree with what it does. Anybody who speaks like this thinks whatever American and England did was right. Germans were not guilty of anything. Hitler was guilty, but because he was the leader; they had to pay the price. So, don't confuse things! England and America killed innocent people in Germany and Japan because wanted to become the rulers of the world. You are boring and stupid.

Babak S at January 20, 2006 03:16 AM [permalink]:

nazer,

You seem to think that responsibility for the WWII crimes falls strictly on the person of Hitler. So, when you write "England and America killed innocent people in Germany and Japan because wanted to become the rulers of the world" who is England? or America? What is their last name? Or first name? Hitler's was Adolf.

M at January 20, 2006 03:26 PM [permalink]:

Read "A report on the banality of evil" by Hannah Arendt.

Shahram Kholdi at January 20, 2006 08:35 PM [permalink]:
I waited to see if Mr/s observer (nazer) will respond, until the "Banality of Evil" was quoted by "M". I think this "silence" so far speaks volumes in its own right. Kaveh, who I regard an excellent pin-pointer, is asking an ethical question with universal implications. His question is one to be put for Americans of all generations, as well as the Germans, and in view of the atrocities that Saddam Hossein committed both against Shiites and Kurds, it is a question that many urban Iraqi who chose to live under his rule should respond; and last but not least Iranians. I am sorry that I am not intelligent enough for the honourable reader, not to mention boring (in fact Kaveh can testify that I am still miles away from becoming truly boring). 1) Point of History: Nonetheless, the banality of evil by Arendt intends to show us that the problem of evil is a "very human" problem. You cannot exaggerate it, but do not try to trivialize it either. No one tries to trivialize the bombardments of civilian in the World War by the allies. Yet, there is a concept collective responsibility. Germans officials, as we know today, actively tried to manipulate the collective memory of the masses about the causes of the WWI. Even before Hitler, the liberals and the conservative coalition in Germany attempted to cover up Germany's clear responsibility for the beginning of the War. The memoirs of Bismark (who helped to found the establishment of modern united German state) were censored by the same people! Didn't they realize that by reinforcing victimization amongst German masses they were fertilizing the land for the ultimate power-take-over of the ultra-nationalists? I do not think so. But does this absolve Germans as a nation? No. Does it make them forever guilty? Not necessarily, but it always keeps them under the spot-light. 2) Relevance? I think Iranians are too conservative to be able to question the nuclear ambitions of the regime, because they are partly afraid of being conceived as unpatriotic. For a similar reason, they are too conservative to want to question Ahmadinejad's idiotic comments. Looking for examples of Iranians conservativeness? Just look at how recently a “debate” has broken out in the Persian blogosphere over someone's language in her weblog (she has been reduced- or if I dare say elevated- to the level of a lesbian whore, whatever that means, recently. Instead of trying to establish a broad dialogue about very pressing issues that are overshadowing the future of the Iranian state, not to mention all our relatives back home, people are interested to question ethical issues that are better to be left to be discussed when Iran is being run by “a” democratically elected, free from theological totalitarianism. Such incidents, as well as the silence towards the present post, overall, indicate to me that we are an extremely conservative nation. Tolerance is simply not there for self-expression that is not “hate-mongering” (such as “AN’s” words). Self-expression, if it awakens us to our taboos, whether it is cock’n bull or it is the question of collective responsibility; or the question of what we should do to prevent the US from bombing us/sanctioning us, is simply forbidden! I would not hesitate to say that the Iranian Civil Society has to be louder about Ahmadinejad's rhetoric. It has to take the initiative for a broad debate over the nuclear question and the ambitions of the regime. I know that some may say that I am sit ["Toooo long!" editors say, "Here: click to read the whole thing!"]
Craig at January 25, 2006 11:56 PM [permalink]:

Which blog has the lesbian whore? I want to read that one :P

Shahram Kholdi at January 26, 2006 07:11 AM [permalink]:

You might as well visit:

(you need to be able to read Persian for this one) sibiltala.blogspot.com

This one is largely in English, but the same fantasticlly rebellious person:

kopoli.blogspot.com

An Iranian Student (AIS) at January 26, 2006 06:59 PM [permalink]:

She is nothing but a pile of filth.
Not becauseo of the sexual content of most of her writings. I couldn't care less abou them and in a sense they are also an element of taboo breaking which is good. But because of other fields, politics, culture religion ....they are backward, hateful and dirty. Real dirty.
It seems there are some centers of her ilk in Toronto and elsehwhere. Part of the filth of our culture, unfortunately, taking advantage of the civilized humane ideals of the West to spue their venom and hatred around them.
Not worth any more attention than this anyway.

Craig at January 26, 2006 08:36 PM [permalink]:

Thanks for the link, Shahram. I have to admit I don't find her writings very interesting, but maybe she does better in Farsi?

Shahram at January 26, 2006 09:08 PM [permalink]:

Craig,

It is much better in Persian, of course even if you manage to learn Persian you have to hang out with some very good speakers to be able to get the cultural connotation of her very rascal comments. Anti-taboo is what sets her apart in this regard, but as I more or less agree with AIS about the filth part, I too do not agree with many things that she says.

Lastly, my rant has obviously received no response. I still do not believe Kaveh's points were too much over people's head. The ethical question that he has so aptly raised requires the kind of courage that we Iranians most often lack.

M at January 26, 2006 09:23 PM [permalink]:

Seems anyone who is not on the same political side of a certain iranian student is "pile of filth or lunatic or pimp or criminal or clown or whore or idiot or hate-monger ...", to name a few.

An Iranian Student (AIS) at January 27, 2006 01:57 AM [permalink]:

Nice try M.
But that is definitely not true. I never expect people to be on the same political side of me, nor does that effect the respect I have for them. In her case, and the case of others which I have called by that name, it is not a matter of innocent difference of opinion.
The system in Iran is one of the most criminal in the history and has been commiting crimes since its inception..actually before its inception. So when someone like her is a sympatizer of all the principals of this system's ideology and acts basically as a dirty speaking apologizer of this system- and has done certain things in this regard that is not necessarily reflected in her blog-she is an accomplice-got it? accomplice- in the criminal ideology of this system and all th crines it has commited all these years. This is not the case of a person with just diffrences of opinion anymore.
I'm sorry you don't understand this but that is the way it is.

An example: When that "very respectable individual" writes about exposing the names of people who are cooperating with human rights organizations to document human right abuses, ie. crimes of worst kind imaginable, and try risking their lives to help bring this to the attention of world public and as an influence on policy makers in a world of vested interests and business deals, when that's what she does all the time then such as I have used are the least titles she deserves to be addressed with.
And this is just the latest jewel within her "very respectable" posts. I can go on about her positions and slanderings as well as her activities ... but I won't. As I said that idiot is not worth any more attention. She has already got much more than someone like her deserves.
This is my last comment on this subject.

M at January 27, 2006 12:12 PM [permalink]:

Listen to the AIS.

An Iranian Student (AIS) at January 28, 2006 05:20 AM [permalink]:

Indeed.

cyrus at February 3, 2006 09:48 AM [permalink]:

I think that iran needs to suffer the consequences of it's actions the past 25 years, collectively,because most of the damage to itself and the world has it's seeds on an unconscious level. It would be a shame is all I'm saying; if simply some 'surgical' tactical airstrikes took place and only say the president was removed, and re-appointed by khamenei. Only so that the elements of iranian society which created,supported,and kept standing the 'islamic' revolution could continue to exist and even flourish w/out ever having had to see why precisely it is that not only in their actions and words are they lacking in enlightenment, but how their very own thoughts and twisted belief systems has led us all to this point. Untill they can see the mass destruction,pain, and suffering as consequence of whom they've chosen to be, the Horror of the 'Islamic Republic' is only destined to carry on or even resurface in one or another of it's ugly forms. The basis of why such a thing could have existed in the first place can only be found in traditional persian social structure. At least through this dark period there is a confrontation with the man in the mirror which for Iran can surface as a crisis, an opportunity to rid ourselves once and for all of that elemtal nature which likely surfaced in the cave days long long ago, before islam or one of the other 20 religious beliefs our ancestors either created or adopted, or both, at a time when men simply bopped their women over the head with a tree stick and proceeded to remove their independent human will. When they came for the women, I was'nt worried cause I was not a women....etc...etc....The jews....etc..etc...., the queers...etc..etc.... Now all of Iran. Are you Iranian?

Iranian Freedom fighter at February 6, 2006 12:00 AM [permalink]:

We need a smart revolution. People of Iran need to oppose this oppressive government by staying at home and shout the word "Freedom" from their houses every night. It should start on Thursday 9th of February at 8 pm. And again on Saturday 11th Feb 2006 and every two days from then on. Pass this on to all your friends and relatives within Iran. With the help of the West and all decent human beings around the world, and the effort of the Iranians themselves, We as the community of decent humans around the world should be able to get rid of these murderers ruling Iran by force. Remember, Thursday Night, 9th February 2006 at 8 pm

Steven Causey at February 12, 2006 01:15 PM [permalink]:

Hate speech, or any other speech for that matter, is still protected, and should be, in America, for as long as American Democracy stands.
No one should control what a man thinks or says. Public or not.
In the name of love and the abolition of hate, rights are being plucked from you and I daily. It's really so very brilliant, the gouging of the eyes of American Liberty.
We as americans have another right, the right to absolutely despise each other, and that my friend is a basic and very natural right.
You cannot legislate human nature.