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October 30, 2003

 Life 
I am going to study in America!
Ghazal Geshnizjani  [info|posts]

art.gifYesterday I was informed that I am not allowed to attend a workshop because it is held in Fermilab and I am an Iranian! I am the only one among all the speakers of the workshop who is excluded because of my citizenship. Less than a week ago my husband was informed that he is not allowed to apply for a scholarship from NASA not because he is a foreigner but because he is from an unfriendly country! I am practically not allowed to go to any conference outside the US because I am Iranian and I have chosen to study in the USA. I am not allowed to see my father while I am here because he is an Iranian!

My friend can hardly visit his wife, let alone live with her because they are Iranian students. Our friends who went back home this summer to see their families havenít been able to come back to continue their studies yet, because they are Iranian. My friendís mother hasnít been able to see her only grandchild at all, and now the child is 5 years old and it is just because she is an Iranian woman and her daughter has chosen to study in the USA!

So I wonder, what is the cost of higher education! How far can we go in this game of being abused and discriminated against for science and how far can they go, playing the role of our Gods? Do we have any better alternative? I guess it must be better than staying in Iran if so many of us are willing to go through so much trouble,* sacrifice our rights, bear the humiliation and come over here!

Are we the ultimate lovers of the science, prepared to pay any price for it, or is it just that we have gone through so much in our homeland that we still like it better here?

Of course it isnít that if we go back to Iran this discrimination wouldnít affect us anymore. Not only do they put sanctions on the sale of simple up-to-date technology to Iranian experimentalists and not let papers from Iran be published in American journals, they also interfere with Iranís theoretical science affairs with others as well. For example, I was talking to an Argentinean scientist who had traveled to Iran once for a cosmology workshop and he was telling me that although he likes attending conferences in Iran, each time he enters the US, because of his trip to Iran, he has to go through a lot of harassment, so he is not sure if it is a good idea for him to visit Iran for a second time. Each time the US decides to attack one of Iranís neighbors, international conferences or workshops in Iran get cancelled as everybody is scared to travel to the region!

What drives me so crazy is when Bush goes on saying how they are a friend of Iranian people and Iranian students and are trying to help them to get their freedom back. I know that most politicians lie to people, and he has proven to be one of the worst liars for his childish case for attacking Iraq, but still telling people lies straight in their face while you are doing the exact opposite in front of their eyes, thatís really absurd!

*Finding someone who is willing to give his/her credit card number, so we could pay for exams and application fees which are very expensive in Iranian currency, making few trips to foreign countries to take the exams and apply for a US visa, running after professors for few months to write recommendation letters (a standard procedure in most countries), in the case of boys, waiving military service so they can get out of country, Öand believe me each of these is quite a project for itself!

Comments
Amir at October 31, 2003 02:18 AM [permalink]:

Please forgive those bastard Americans. It's not their fault, they are just created like this with the IQ of not greater than 70!

Hamed at October 31, 2003 05:36 AM [permalink]:

Aren't we the ultimate lovers of the US?

Ali Zuashkiani at October 31, 2003 05:57 AM [permalink]:

Dear Amir, when we do not bother ourselves to distinguish between people of America and some of their politicians why should we expect them to do this. They are doing the same, instead of trying to understand Muslim people they just call all of them terrorists. This is exactly the same when we call them ďbastardĒ or ďpeople with IQ less than 70Ē, but wait, there is a difference and that is they are much powerful than us and their vision of the Muslims is affecting us a lot. Have you ever imagined what would happen if Iran had the same power as today US and US had the power which Iran has now? How we would act if we were an almighty superpower. A quite number of Iranian people make jokes about Arabs, Turks, Kurds etc which some of the jokes are really humiliating. One of my friends was in a party which the host had turned on an Arabic music by mistake, many of the guests outraged and some of them left the party. While we behave our neighbors whom we have leaved with for several hundreds years in such way, how can we expect Americans treat us fairly?

Amir at October 31, 2003 06:20 AM [permalink]:

Dear Ali, I didn't mean to insult US nation, but this is the nation which destroyed the most democratic government in Middle East in Iran (Mosadegh), turned Iran to a military base, made us to accept Capitoaltion (I don't know the right word), helped f...ing Iraqis to kill Iranians in the war, shot down an Iranian civil Airbus, putting Iran in the list of Axis of Evil beside N Korea,... . Aren't these enough for the anger of Iranians against Americans?
What do you mean by "leaved" with our neighbours for several hundreds of years? Don't you want to know that how Arabs think about Iranians and how they treated us during war, before and after that? I don't want to insult you but I think that you are living in an optimistic and unrealistic world. Sorry for my last sentence.

Nasser at October 31, 2003 07:43 AM [permalink]:

Dear Ghazal and all other friends,
I am going to look at this writing from another aspect. The reason which Iranian students face a large number of difficulties to come out of Iran, or as they mention to escape from Iran. I would like to confess here that I have been one of them. I think it is a wrong and ill tendency among Iranian students who are going to come out of Iran without exactly know what they want, and what they are going to do. They start with applying to 100 universities either in Master or PHD, no matter what specialization it is. They just want and I say need scholarship. Even MIT offers or Duke or Merrylands. Even it is in Canada or USA or France or recently Sweden and India. they do not thing that doing PHD should be a supplementary and complement to their career, not merely obtaining a PHD. What do you think? Don’t you think that someone should dilute this wrong tendency by advising them that foreign countries are not paradise? Don't you think that we have this duty to remind them that the mentality here is different from that of in Iran in respect of obtaining PHD? Shouldn’t be somebody to tell them that you should first know what you want from life then travel abroad. It is a fashion, and I would say a wrong fashion in Iran that all the students in semester 7 start reading for TOEFL and applying without any particular goal in their mind? i am so concerned with this tendency and problem in Iran. I think you should try to write more about these facts to change the views of Iranian students, and make them decide rationally.

Dan Schmelzer at October 31, 2003 10:43 AM [permalink]:

I would like to know why Ghazal still likes it better here, despite all the indignities. Does she still believe that she made the right choice in studying and working in the US?

yahya at October 31, 2003 11:33 AM [permalink]:

Thanks for your article. Discriminations against Iranian students are quite wide spread. It is important that they get documented. Writing this article can be a step in this direction.

Not only, are Americans unaware of these discriminations, but also Iranian-Americans are not aware either. We need to educate the community that discriminations need to be documented and resisted.

Senior Grad at October 31, 2003 11:38 AM [permalink]:

I read the post(ing?) above, though not all the comments yet, because it caught my attention more than the other post(ing?)s after Babak's Seradjeh's lastest post(ing) (one of them something about a nose?) and therefore I have POSTponed reading them for now. I should also add that I should add more comments below Babak's post(ing), because *that* was really addressing some important issues and stirred some interesting exchanges.

So for the time being, I don't think it is the Americans', or even the American politicians' fault alone that Iranians have such a hard time for travelling to America. Bush is a liar, all right, but how would you treat the natives of a country that on one hand call you the Great Evil (or Satan) and on the other hand, ironically enough, want to come here and benefit from their scientific or materail advances?

So, I guess we should not lay the blame wholly on them. Part of the blame must be placed on our own politicians and how short-sighted and ill-informed and under-trained they are about their business, that is, politics, and in particular, the foreign policy part. I said once before: These guys can't read English! What the heck do they know about how the world opeartes, about the political equations and stuff of that sort?

Granted, even if someone has some good ideas in that beloved country of ours about how to deal expediently and smartly (no, don't think of Rafsanjani, please) with a mighty "arrogant" superpower, those ideas have to pass through a narrow bottle-neck which is known as the His Majesty, the supreme leader of the Islamic Republic to pass as acceptable.

We were fooled into having the power to actually free Palestine for a number of years, and instead of having the sense to take advantage of being friends with the US and other powers, without sacrificing our honor or whatnot, we preferred to be stubborn and sacrifice our youth and our money. This stupidity, for lack of a better term, continues to this day and causes us all hardship.

A hardship that could be easily curtailed, had IRI shown some cleverness (I'm looking for the right word here, but can't find it) in their dealing with America. But I suppose they don't care more about those of us who come to America than American policy-makers do.

Just to give you an example, Albright some years ago almost apologized for America's wrongdoing, but the Iranians in charge missed the opportunity for taking advantage of this gesture. One last thing: it has been reported that Ali-Akbar Velayati, apparently leader's trusted right hand when it comes to dealing with the outside world, when he was the minister of foreign affairs, had time and again to ESTEKHAREH for making decisions that affected all of us. And I do not kid you...

Senior Grad at October 31, 2003 11:45 AM [permalink]:

I meant "yield to ESTEKHAREH". For those of you who do not know what ESTEKHAREH is, it refers to randomly opening the Holy Book of muslims when it is hard to choose between the horns of a dilemma and find out which way one should go, based on the kind of verses that show up on the randomly opened page. It is customary that in important issues, many Iranians (I'm not sure about our Sunni brethren) appeal to ESTEKHAREH to make a decision, for example whether a suitor is good for their daughter or they should let him go. :-)

mehrad at October 31, 2003 11:53 AM [permalink]:

We, sheeps, usually don't care where we're going, it's only important to see another sheep in front.

Obviously, there's no reason to get mad if exceptionally, you are somebody who knows where s/he is going to and why.

Maybe somday, there will be a sheep choosing to go back and consequently we may find ourselves in Iran, while keep asking others: "Do you remember how we ended here?"

yahya at October 31, 2003 12:34 PM [permalink]:

Dear Mehrdad,
I was among the first sheep (among my friends and my department) to come abroad. It seems you have some sort of prejudice against sheep. I carefully looked at my options and made my choice. I was interested in science, and all the options in Iran were bad. I remember how PhD students should cut the troats of other PhD sheep to be able to get the limited funding for going to a conference abroad. Sheeps that could generate lots of fur (papers) would be marked as black sheep and be offered to wolves to be eaten.

I haven't regret my sheepish decision. But as Ghazal pointed out, there are lots of dogs around here.

Grand Vizier at October 31, 2003 12:50 PM [permalink]:

Bleating and babbling we fell on his neck with a scream
Wave upon wave of demented avengers
March cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream
Have you heard the news?
The dogs are dead
You better stay home
And do as you're told
Get out of the road if you want to grow old.

Senior Grad at October 31, 2003 12:53 PM [permalink]:

Couldn't help wondering: Are dogs supposed to be protecting the sheep or devouring them? Now that we got all our metaphors mixed up (the sheep that follows other sheep blindly and the sheep that are vulnerable to wolves and the black sheep of the family and a lot more) let me ask this:

What could possibly be the use of theoretical (read: useless) science for a country like our beloved Iran that is deprived of much more urgent necessities of life?

hazhir at October 31, 2003 01:43 PM [permalink]:

Thanks Ghazal for the article. You briefly documented some of the negative sides of being an Iranian in the US, and I think it is a valuable contribution to do so, as ignorance is one of the main sources of prejudism.
Let me divert a little bit and expand your idea along the path that Ali Zuashkiani contributed to. That is if we want to reduce unjustice, not only we should raise awareness of instances we become a victim, but also we need to spend much more discussing instances that WE are the source of injustice. As obvious as it sounds, it came as a real insight to me, when after attending several talks by Noam Chomsky, I noticed that his main message FOR ME is not how bad US foreign policy is, but how important it is for individuals to take responsibility for what they are contributing to, to critisize their own direct or indirect actions. For an American that translates into critiquing injustice in US foreign policy, different types of racism in this society, etc. Yet for me, as an Iranian, this policy suggests I should raise my awareness, and that of my fellow Iranians, where Iranians are spreading injustice in the world. I think Ali's example and question is very thought provoking: What flower would we put on humanities thrown, should we be the superpower?
Just imagine the Afghan men in Iran: Not only Iranian girls are not allowed to marry them, but also if they do so in Afghanestan not to have broken this law, the citizenship of the Iranian girl is revoked! We usually find ways for justifying our prejudice(as did Nazi's, KKK's, or Iran/Arab hating Arabs/Iranians), or more comfortably, completely ignore them (As Amercian public opinion often does in treating Iranians/Irquies/Muslims etc), so I think self critisim is the main path to break the cycles of ignorance. However, I admit that it does not buy you friends, at least in your own community (As Chomsky is mainly known outside US!).

Arash Jalali at October 31, 2003 02:29 PM [permalink]:

I'm not in the U.S. (yet ?) nor have I ever been. So I may not be qualified to make any comments about whether or not one is justified to complain about discriminations committed in a country other than his/hers, in which he/she has voluntarily chosen to study.

With all due respect to all of you Iranian "aliens" who are currently studying abroad, especially in the U.S., and some of whom I know are undeservedly being discrimated against, I should say you are taking it a little bit personally. It's not just Iranian (students) who are being harrassed. American citizens themselves are being victimized by the government. I am sure you all know about the Patriot Act passed during the confusion right after 9/11.

There are documented cases of American citizens (not of any middle eastern descent but in fact Anglo-Saxons) being denied the right to board passenger planes because the FBI has put them into a "no-fly" black list. What is interesting is that the government will not tell them why they are on the list and what they can do in order to be removed from it.

According to the BBC, there is another Patriot Act comming up which will allow the government to secretly arrest anyone on the U.S. soil, question him/her secretly, and if anyone, even the family members or the lawyer, wanted to enquire about their whereabouts the government can deny knowledge of their detention. Now I think if the American public do not want to do anything about this for themselves, then you people certainly should not expect any changes for Iranians whom have been considered terrorists at the best of times.

maryam at October 31, 2003 04:29 PM [permalink]:

Well, APS news had a very small section about the March Meeting which is being held in Canada this year, it basically says that students, postdocs and visitors from all but a few countries (and guess what Iran is included too!!) can make use of the automatic visa revalidation program and go safely to Canada and return to the US!

Also, dear Dan Schmelzer,
I donít see how you concluded from Ghazalís post that she likes it better here?! I think it would be a very rash decision for her not to finish her PhD and leave the country! I donít think you would have done it yourself had you been in a similar situation in say Nazi Germany!!!
I share a lot of Ghazalís feelings but still I think it was worth experiencing the life in this country, seeing how far it is from what they try to portray it to the outsiders!
I think itís the human nature that people donít believe things until they witness it with their own eyes!

yahya at October 31, 2003 04:33 PM [permalink]:

Hazhir, I can't really understand your logic. Ghazal says we are discriminated NOW, and you say lets invistigate whether we are discriminating others.

Suppose you are in a street and getting beaten by a big guy, What do you do? do you defend yourself or you say let me think if I have beaten others when I was in kindergarden. NO! you fight back!

We are not commiting the injustice in Iran. We are taking every opportunity to sign a petition or to write to bring some positive change in Iran. We have every right to demand fair treatment wherever we live. We shouldn't be confused. We are discriminated here and we have to do something about it right here, and the first step is to express that we are getting discriminated.

Dan Schmelzer at October 31, 2003 05:12 PM [permalink]:

Maryam: If she doesn't like being here, or doesn't like the benefits of being here, then why is she here? I assume that she has weighed the positives and negatives.

Also, I assume that she's nobody's fool and in reaching her decision kept in mind the rather sensitive fields of work that she and her husband are in, and the fact that Iran has declared itself an enemy of the US.

Elnaz at October 31, 2003 05:53 PM [permalink]:

two quick points:

First Mr. Dan Schmelzer:
I for some reason know that the field Ghazal and her husband are working on is not sensitive at all. I mean at least I can't find a sensitivity or a relation to A-bomb in Astronomy. Can you?
Another example of what Ghazal was mentioning is that you can't give your Iranian address and register for Toefl. Is that sensitive too?

Second:

I agree.All of us have weighed the positives and negatives. We knew that our staying at home, wouldn't help anybody. we came with our own free will and our own hard-earned merits. but we have at least got the right to protest against the discriminations. We want our situation to become better (I guess that's natural). So we'll do whatever in our power to let people know that we are not terrorists or anything of that order. So we don't deserve to be treated as terrorists. Remember what happened to the Japanese in WWII. Japan was America's enemy but not the Japanese who were living here. It's the same thing.

maryam at October 31, 2003 05:59 PM [permalink]:

Well, define "sensitive fields"!? I know Ghazal personally and her field doesn't seem sensetive to me! but I understand that people can have different definition of something being "sensetive"!
Also, I don't understand you when you say that Iran has declared itself an enemy of the US! I think it works the other way around! It was Bush who came out and declared Iran along with Iraq and North Korea as enemies! I think the government here has to fabricate enemies, the same way that Regan declared Panama as an enemy and removed its government along with some other south American countries!
We as Iranians, simply don't want to be anyone's slaves! We don't want to take anyone's orders!

Elnaz at October 31, 2003 06:06 PM [permalink]:

Maryam,

The Islimic Republic has always declared America as their enemy even long before Bush. and if Bush has called Iran axis of evil Khomeini called them the great Satan quite a few years before all of this.
I don't know why we need to change facts just to prove our points.

What I guess we Iranian students who are living in america want has nothing to do with these politics. We simply want people to look at our actions in US not the country we're coming from.

A Reader at October 31, 2003 06:19 PM [permalink]:

I can't believe how ingrate the author is to the country that has given such an excellent opportunity to her. Americans don't owe you anything. Do you have a brain cell to understand this?

maryam at October 31, 2003 06:22 PM [permalink]:

Dear Elnaz,

Well, the current policy of the Iranian government is not to engage in any hostile activity against the US! they actually want to talk if their conditions are met (such as the lifting of the sanctions). What Khomeini said 20 years ago doesn't count much now that he is not alive! Politics is a dynamic thing! remember that after the Iraq war Powell here said that France should be punished for not obeying America! but now they talk about mending their relationship!
as a matter of fact, Iran was colaborating with them regarding the situation in Afghanestan, when Bush came up with his infamous Axis of Evil! that's why it raised a lot of eyebrows within and outside of Iran!

A Reader at October 31, 2003 06:37 PM [permalink]:

at October 31, 2003 06:19 PM:
I can't believe how ingrate the author is to the country that has given such an excellent opportunity to her. Americans don't owe you anything. Do you have a brain cell to understand this?

Dear friend,
If you have ever worked in scientific institutes here in America, you should have noticed that a lot of work force in these institutions are comming from oversees! As a matter of fact in science and enginnering research areas, Americans are minorities! so I would say the bebefits are mutual!
Remember, that this country became advanced in science after the immigration of a lot of European scientists who were fleeing the world war two! before that people were going to Europe to get education and do research!

Hossein at October 31, 2003 06:39 PM [permalink]:

Maybe this is not related to Ghazal's post, but her post made me wonder what has happened in the last 25 years that Iranian students (whom are not really related to the government of Iran) have become terrorist and banned from scientific meetings and institutes.
As I've heard it was different before the revolution.

Considering the fact that the Bush administration is in the state of panic and wants Americans to feel the same way to hide itself behind them, these discriminations are inevitable for us.
As Elnaz said this happened to Japanese during WWII as well (though in a hasher way).

I know what's happening is stupid, but it's politics, not science anymore. We are being discriminated as many people are. We are in this situation due to our nationality, others are for their color of skin.

As Yahaya pointed out, these problems should be documented and we should talk about it with other people, so hopefully some day, we won't face them again.

A question: what will happen if Iran's regime changes in next couple of years? Will it then be different for us?

Hossein at October 31, 2003 06:46 PM [permalink]:

I just remembered one thing: You are not allowed to drive in the state of Massachusetts with the international driving license issued by the Iranian government. There are some other countries like China listed too.

I faced a lot of problems because of this strange law. Although, seems funny now!

Mehrad at October 31, 2003 06:51 PM [permalink]:

I don't quite get which right we are talking about?

US authorities are crystal clear from the first step. As Elnaz mentioned, they don't let us to register for TOEFL. At least they're honest. They're showing their way of discrimination from the beginning. Nobody has invited Iranian sutdents. Even after they say NO to their Iranian guests, they apply again and again and again. Are they under an oath to admit overseas PHD students, pay them and yet treat them like their own citizens?

It's simple. They're speaking an understandable language: OK! Now that you insist this much,...hmmm well, come in, BUT, remember that YOU ARE NOT WELCOMED!

Yet we keep saying we Iranians cannot bear discrimination, we fight!

I wonder, how come nobody thought about fighting for his/her human rights while queuing for a VISA outside US embassy in Dubay or Ankara?

Shabnam at October 31, 2003 07:52 PM [permalink]:

Why I could not see even one positive point in Gazal's writing about US? I do not understand why you still choose to live in US if it is that bad. Iran is much better, at least the government puts students in prison if they do not like what they have to say (scholarships? ahhhh....). I mean, who wants to go to a conference or workshop when they can all go to prison for just writing in a weblog, or walking in the street, or being alive. Besides, aren't we after all the proud nation who were scared to death from our Afghan immigrants (who by the way are from a more similar background to us)? Aren't we people who didn't even want them to clean our toilets? I believe we should think twice before criticizing other countires. I balso elieve that we should criticize "constructively" things we see "unfair", but it should be done without forgetting where we are coming from and remembering that at the end of the day if we were in their shoes what would we have done? (We can always remember the way each of us behaved regarding Afghan immigrants) (I know all of "us" were nice to them!). So next time before criticizing purley negativly, we should also think or at least consider the positive sides of living in US or any other place we are currently living at, so may be, and that is a big may be, we can cricize them with a slightly more open mind and may be then our voices would be heard.

hazhir at October 31, 2003 08:39 PM [permalink]:

Yahya jaan, baazam ke baa ajale khoondi!
I very deliberately emphasized in my comment that I DO find Ghazals points valuable, as they raise awareness among non-iranians, and I branded my comment as a "diversion", recognizing that this is not along the same line, or a response to Ghazal:
"You briefly documented some of the negative sides of being an Iranian in the US, and I think it is a valuable contribution to do so, as ignorance is one of the main sources of prejudism. Let me divert a little bit and... "

This said, I raised the issue the way I did, just to highlight the importance of self-critisism, if we engage in other-critisism. Otherwise, it is very easy to get stuck in nagging and whining and feeling that we are the victims of all the injustice in the world.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Ghazal is nagging and whining, I have myself missed my sisters wedding and lived all the problems mentioned in the article. However, I see clearly among we Iranians the risk of becoming obsessed with a victim mentality (e.g. Mosaddegh's case) and therefore losing the proactive, change oriented attitude that is needed for changing the real structures of injustice (i.e. It is not our fault that we are in such a mess, it is THEIR fault (Them: Islumic republic, America, British colonialism, etc), so we can't do anything about it).
Your petitioning, writing, and raising awareness are the best methods to fight the injustice we face here in the US. But far more Iranians that I know prefer engaging in armchair discussions on how badly they are being treated, than signing your petitions or writing articles for american audience to change the misperceptions. In short there is a thin line in these discussions, but a huge difference in what they can achieve between two sides of the line. My hope was to highlight this thin line, that I apparently failed, at least in my first comment.

yahya at October 31, 2003 08:40 PM [permalink]:

Mehrdad: "Even after they say NO to their Iranian guests, they apply again and again and again. Are they under an oath to admit overseas PHD students, pay them and yet treat them like their own citizens?"

Mehrdad, this is a typical case of good slave owner vs bad slave owner. We in Iran(under bad slave owner) do not have good opportunaties, so we do our best to come here(to be under good slave owner). But wherever we are, we have to fight with slavery itself regardless of whether we are under good or bad slave owners.Just because our choices are limited doesn't mean that we should not complain and get discriminated.

Dear Shabnam, you are right that articles that are
written about discrimination should also point out the positive points to show to their reader that they are fair in their analysis. But I find your use of "we" in case of treating Afghans unfair because of the reasons that I have pointed out in my previous comments.

What is upseting to me most is not when discriminations happen, but it is when victims start justifying it to be able to ignore it. This what comments by Hazhir, Senior Grad, Shabnam are about.

Shabnam at October 31, 2003 09:01 PM [permalink]:

Dear Yahya,

I do not have to justify the discriminations in US to be able to ignore them. Infact I am very much aware of those discriminations, and that is why I HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO LIVE THERE. All I have tried to do in my comment was to put things into a healtier and better perspective. IF and that is a BIG IF, I decide to live in US, I would do it thoughfully, considering the pros and cons.

Dan Schmelzer at October 31, 2003 09:06 PM [permalink]:

Elnaz: No, as far as I know, astronomy is not that sensitive of a field. But physics is one of the most sensitive fields overall. I don't know how so many of the founders of this blog can be Iranians studying physics in the US. Seems like a recipe for heartache to me, since national security is what seems to fund physics in the US. I'm a little stumped as to why an Iranian would expect to gain admittance to Fermi or a scholarship with NASA because of this fact.

Maryam: Yes, the benefits are mutual.

Elnaz at October 31, 2003 09:39 PM [permalink]:

Dan,

A lot of the funds come from NSF, NIH and private sectors. None of them has "directly" anything to do with defense and military.

Physics can be sensitive but so can be engineering, chemistry, biology or medicine. In short maybe any subject that has anything to do with technology.

Granted. Iran has been a hostile country to America. but as I mentioned in my comment so have been other countries(Japan, or Germany in WWII) or others that are America's strategic rivals(like China). Do you think they should get banned as well?(Just think about American research institutes without Chinese).

All I'm saying is I understand if places run tighter security background checks on Iranians, but I don't understand (or better I don't think it's a good idea) to ban some 70 million people by sticking a lable on them.

Kaveh Kh. at October 31, 2003 09:41 PM [permalink]:

Dear Dan,

From a totally personal point of view, I like your comment about physics being a sensitive field of study and that you mentioned the fact that national security is the funding force behind many areas of physics [definitely in my case, although being in Canada] but not all, in fact not most of it.

The real concern of the American security against rogue states and terrorism right now is not that of science but is that of technology and engineering aspects. The science of producing, say a nuclear weapon is basically available to anyone with a B.Sc. in physics [or maybe chemistry or any engineering subfield] and a good access to libraries and the internet. Nonetheless the challenging technology needed to build such a weapon lies beyond physics and involves many areas of engineering and applied mathematics and mostly not physics.

The fact that students from rogue countries are not welcome in America, extends beyond the disciplines they are studying. The reasoning and "mentality" behind this policy does not directly deal with the possibility of the technological espionage: Those students simply come from countries controlled by enemies of the US and are treated as potential enemy combatants.

Now even if the war is finished and there are no more enemy states left [one way or the other] we might still want to ask, is the love of science worth leaving the loved-ones?

Ghazal at October 31, 2003 09:43 PM [permalink]:

Dear Dan,
I donít think my field of study trying to calculate how fast universe was expanding billions of years ago has anything to do with me being discriminated against neither does my husbandís research in astronomy and frankly I donít think it is even a real security reason. There are so many contradictory aspects about these procedures that I donít want to get deep into, just check if any of the terrorists is from the countries on the axis of evil, list to see if there is any correlation. Anyway, I agree with the other commenter that I have come here with my own free will and I have to face the consequences. Do I like it?
Well who are you asking? I am an Iranian woman! Could I do anything if I leave anywhere that I am discriminated against? Is there any part of the world which wouldnít discriminate against an ďIranian womanĒ? I once hoped there was but you see I was wrong! I donít believe in solving a problem by erasing it and even if I wanted to, I donít think, I would have had enough means, unless I lose all of my hope in the humanity and close my eyes.
To be honest there are a lot of things that I like here. I donít have anything against American nation. In fact I have seen a lot of nice Americans while I have lived here who I really admire. For now I prefer it, if I can get a good job in Canada instead of US where there is less discrimination but if I donít, adding all the positive and negative facts I am still willing to take the discrimination for a little longer to pursue my scientific goals as long as I have hope that it will be over soon.
For the anonymous commenter,
What part of my post do you find ingrate? What I said was merely some aspects of US policies towards Iranian students and it isnít my idea you can check it out for yourself.
and if you think I am ingrate for calling Bush a liar, I am sorry but I donít consider Bush a country and I can not help it if he lies to the world and his own people, but if you are American and would feel any better go a head and call Khatami a liar I wouldnít be insulted at all.

Sara at October 31, 2003 10:37 PM [permalink]:

I set forth my argument by dividing the Iranian students in the US, in two groups; those who are going back, and those who aren't. Why? I believe our goals and our perspectives about the future (psychologically) have a considerable effect on our attitudes and our judgments of situations.

In the case of those going back:
It's a two-layer issue. United States of America could be considered as the most hospitable nation in the World. The number of foreign students studying in the US cannot be compared to that of any other nations. Of course it is the super power of the world (capable of affording it), and of course it's seeking its own interests in it as well (otherwise it would be considered a fool), but at the same time it's dubious whether any other nation being a super power would had provided such luxurious service to other nations (while some of you might bring up the case of Iran, I would simply say Russia, would they had done it?!)
At the same time, in regard to the prevalent policies, I believe we should be realistic. After all we are a nation who has put almost all of its eggs in one basket. While we've been pretty good at educating people who are considerably ahead in fields of sciences and engineering, we haven't been that much successful in breeding men who'd capable of running their own land honorably and well. That is where I think we need to take the responsibility for the repercussions of our own actions, that is where I don't accept that Americans are just a bunch of dummies (at least they have a constitution the face of world has not seen its like to this day.)

In the case of those not going back:

They have the right to feel really disturbed. Honestly, I see their anxiousness, not as much because of their national pride being stepped over, but as a serious concern for their road ahead. Fearing that more job and social discriminations may be awaiting them. To be serious, no body is going to make any improvements for us. Every nation is what it is today because of what it has done yesterday. Are we doing anything for our (nation's) tomorrow? Are "we"?


yahya at November 1, 2003 04:45 PM [permalink]:

I agree with Sara that Americans should be acknowledged for their openess to foreigners. Eventhough, getting educated foreigners is benficial , we see that rich European countries are not practicing as much.

Sara says :"it's dubious whether any other nation being a super power would had provided such luxurious service to other nations"
I have to say that America still benefits enormously
because of those people who go back to their countries. Most of them start trades with the U.S.
Also, they become American embassadors in their local environment. Many of them become important politicians with close ties to the U.S.

Dan Schmelzer at November 1, 2003 05:31 PM [permalink]:

Ghazal: That's a very useful response. Thank you. After reading your lead post, I was rather miffed. You only posted the negatives, which begs unhelpful responses. And how is an American supposed to respond? To reduce the injustice unfairly attributed to us, or unintentionally caused by us, are we to refuse entry altogether?

At least in your response, you admit that there are sufficient positives to being here, even if you do not really detail them. I don't like one bit that it seems that my country is perceived and used as the least worst choice, though.

Elnaz: I'm thinking of the Department of Energy billions, which are meant to keep knowledgable physics people off the street.

As for the Iranian regime, I am inclined to treat it as harshly as practicable. I am mindful that some of our money, actions, prestige, science, and infrastructure may benefit it. I am inclined to reduce this free-riding off of our hard work. It's not the same with present-day China, or pre-WWII Japan or Germany, because they did not declare themselves enemies of the US.

Kaveh: Thanks for setting me straight on what is required to build a bomb. ;-) Yes, the reasoning is that any Iranian is a potential combatant. But the "second screen" admits that any Iranian is also potentially not a combatant.

An Iranian Student (AIS) at November 1, 2003 07:44 PM [permalink]:

Qazal,
The United states of America is a human institutions with all the fallibilities inherent in it. No one claims it is perfect. Indeed the best argument for democracy and freedom is that it enables people, including those who become victims of discrimination- to 'act' in a lawful and democratic manner to change them for good. No society can predict all the possible shortcomings it will have. So in a democracy, it is not only the right but the duty of the discriminated to engage in remedying the situation for the future generations to come. That's how such socities progress. any discrimination is wrong and must be opposed with correct action.
Have you ever tried to really deal with and oppose such discriminations,each treated as individual cases, with reasonable and logically based 'actions'?You are living in a free democracy for God's sake! there are a myriad of things you can undertake in a democratic fashion against such things. But the response I see seems to be nagging like children and using it as yet another excuse to blame the entire American government, people, history, culture or policy and insult the country that has given you the chance to educate and live and grow in freedom and call its elected president, the representative of its people a liar. this method is of course easier and more fashionable. but is it more useful? I wonder...
BTW, I don't know what your husband studies, but NASA is a bit like army. For working the least requirement is to be an American citizen. So I'm not surprised that applying for grants would be difficult as well.

Dan,
In such dire times as this the last thing that is going to help is a conspiracy theory of another kind. What are you saying? that all these students who have worked their asses off to be able to study here, are secretly funded by the regime in Tehran? I can understand why such 'theories' are widespread in a place like Iran with its long history of totalitarianism and lack of freedom- but to be in USA with all the democratic past and still revel on these stories is something that I can't understand. It will only lead to an educated class of Iranians with a majority of openminded individuals being denied a chance to live in liberty and to use the benefits of progress in shaping their characters that they can use to enhance their home country afterwards. The result will be furthur alianation and disappointment of a people who have the potential for growth. The free world won the cold war through standing by its values (more or less, taken all the human errors into account) and proving itself as a real model of a better society in the eyes of those living behind the iron curtain, not by McCarthyism! Please remember that.

Amir,
Those low IQ Americans went to the moon and managed to produce and sustain the most advanced society, both in scientific and technological as well as social and liberal dimensions yet known in history. What have "geniuses" like you ever accomplished, eh?

AIS at November 1, 2003 07:47 PM [permalink]:

Sorry, I spelled your name wrong. It is Ghazal. (my eyes are watery of sleep!)

AIS at November 1, 2003 07:58 PM [permalink]:

I hadn't read the other comments before writing mine. I ma reading them now, and this one from Maryam , addressed towards the Americans I persume, caught my eyes:
"We as Iranians, simply don't want to be anyone's slaves! We don't want to take anyone's orders!"

Noble words...only its a pitty we seem to ba able only to say it like this loud towards civilised nations that never wanted to 'enslave' us anyway but forget it as soon as we are confronted with barbarians who do!
Look at some iranian prasies of their (barbarian) arab and mongolian masters in the middleages...or their behaviour towards the new Mullah masters. Look at the newest case- the Noble leauriate and her 'calm' apologetics for the new turbnan head, bearded enslaving agents if you doubt me.

Dan Schmelzer at November 1, 2003 08:39 PM [permalink]:

AIS: No, I did not say or mean that all these Iranian students are regime supporters. Where did you understand me to say that?

A Reader at November 1, 2003 10:30 PM [permalink]:

I have been in the US as a student for 4 years now, and they have been the best years of my life. Reading the comments about being a slave in this country makes me feel that we are not living in the same US :)

Niayesh at November 1, 2003 11:35 PM [permalink]:

Among the many, mostly nasty, characteristics that we, Iranians, identify ourselves with, there is a good one that I am actually proud of, and thatís Iranian hospitality. Itís not that we are always hospitable to strangers, but it is a part of our culture and comes up if our judgment is not clouded by other factors like greed, fear, etc.

Long story short, hospitality, which we were brought up to see as an essential part of human decency, is not about providing your guests with lots of food or wealth. It is about putting the interests of your guests higher, or at least equal to your interests; giving them the same food that you would eat, offering them to sleep where you would sleep, etc. Of course, guests are supposed to be considerate too, and not to abuse the hospitality of their host. Hospitality is no obligation. Itís simply a value, like charity, or helping your neighbor.

To apply this to the case at hand, the Iranian students are the guests of the American people. We have no right to be here, study here, or work here. Itís only out of the generosity of the American people, and we would be the first to admit that itís much better (in many aspects) than what we get in our home country.

Being good guests, we should not complain about anything (again part of the Iranian tradition), but, if you donít mind, let me look at the situation from an outsiderís point of view. From my perspective, Americans are bad hosts, not because they donít provide Iranian students with education and opportunity, but because they donít treat them as equal to other Americans, or even citizens of other countries. Remember that, no matter how you treat a guest, he/she doesnít feel good if he/she is treated as an outsider.

Am I being ungrateful? Probably, but I believe I am being honest. I think Americans know the difference between good vs. bad hospitality too. After all, they have hosted generations of guests (or immigrants) and have provided them with opportunities and descent lives. The way they treat, for example, Mexican illegal immigrants is by far better than how Iranians treat Afghans.

Have we been bad guests? I doubt it. As far as I know, there has been no Iranian terrorist who has harmed American interests (in the last 20 years) anywhere in the world. Have you ever heard of any Iranian Al-Qaeda member? As far as I know, Iranian Americans have done more than enough to integrate into the ďAmerican way of lifeĒ, and probably are the most educated minority in the US.

To conclude, let me say that the way Americans discriminate against Iranian students, is not wrong, and they have every right to do it. However, itís simply not descent. Itís un-American!

Ghazal at November 2, 2003 02:09 AM [permalink]:

May be I need to remind readers of two simple statements that I was trying to make: first that American policies are discriminative toward Iranian Students and second that Iranian students seem to be willing to accept it. I actually think the second issue is even more important. I donít think any of us is crazy to sacrifice some of his/her rights like visiting his/her families for no reason. We have our own reasons whether it is that it sounds cool when my mother tells someone that her daughter is in ďAmericaĒ and shows her photos of me in Disneyland or Hollywood or that one can go and drink publicly as much as he desires without slightest fear of being arrested or reasons like that the best scientists in the world have gathered in US or political reasons, but still I donít think the student who says he is having the best time of his life in the US feels nothing when Christmas comes and all the other students plan to go visit their families, go back to their countries, go to the Caribbean or whatever, and he has to remind himself that I am different because I was born in Iran. As much as he can remind himself of what situation he would have had back in Iran and how lucky he is to be in US, it is still the fact that he is treated differently and it is in no contradiction with him having the best time of his life.
Itís important to realize which issues are being compared. African Americans could have gone live happy in US with a segregation system just reminding themselves that they were probably dying of Hunger or Aids in Africa if their ancestors hadnít been slaved in to US.

To an Iranian Student,
I wouldnít have written anything if I didnít think it might make a slightest difference. ďHave you ever tried to really deal with and oppose such discriminations, each treated as individual cases, with reasonable and logically based 'actions'?Ē
I think it would be nice if you gave us some suggestions. It will be very informative for all of us to know what constructive steps can be taken. The actions I could participate in are contacting senators, signing petitions or letters to the White House, asking university officials to take some actions, trying to acknowledge other people and taking some actions in specific cases. Of course, like all the others I am a student and I havenít come here to spend all of my time to fight discrimination in the US.

AIS at November 2, 2003 05:32 AM [permalink]:

Ghazal,
I don't know of any specific ways-the truth is we are all very unaware of the possibilties we can have, that's why it's so important to learn them now.
But besides what you yourself mentioned, here are some more: writing articles for newspapers and magazines, holding talks in university open forums or other public places, talking with local radio or tv stations, forming active groups with other Iranian or other like minded students in this regard and holding brainstorming sessions, even handing out leaflets in the street to passerbys!...you know, getting noticed. It might be very small at first but you have to start somewhere, right? The important thing is to remain objective and address each case of possible discrimination individually, without jumping and generalizing like bringing the president in to it for example- and keeping faithful to the very origins of democracy and American value system in doing so. Niayesh's comment above for example was a very good instance of this IMHO.
But I concede, we-in the US, Iran or elsewhere- need much to learn....

Dan,
I know that what I said was an exaggeration, I did it intentionaly to show the absurdness...but what did you mean anyway? What does calling Physics a sensitive subject imply? Aren't you saying that it looks suspicious when so many Iranians study physics in the US, that they will use it back in Iran against us?
If that was not your intentions then I'm sorry, but please tell us what you meant by such remarks because this is the natural inference one draws from them.

Ali Mahani at November 2, 2003 08:30 AM [permalink]:
Well I know you are gonna hate me for this, but before drawing those patriotic daggers and lynching me please hear me out. First, all this bollocks about racism in America and the way Iranian students are “abused” in the US is really getting up my nose. Just watch those Turks living in Germany, Arabs living in Israel or Algerians living in France, and maybe that will teach you a thing or two about racism and its meaning. Come on, it was you who dreamed of going to America, it was you who went through all the trouble and all the expenses… to get a US visa, and in a word, it was YOU who longed for the USA, not the other way round. So don’t expect to be treated like guests of honour and don’t try to outstay your welcome. I know that for all your complaints, you are more than ready to put up with 10 times as much abuse and racist behaviour- just for the pleasure, material comfort, and above all, the prestige that comes with living in a place like America. These complaints and grievances fade into total oblivion when you sit down among your less fortunate, Iranian-based relatives and show them your Green Cards or tell them about the gorgeous time you recently spent in this or that American city …. All you ever think of is turning your student, single-entry, J1 … visas into permanent residence visas, and no amount of racism and discrimination is ever gonna deter you one bit from doing your utmost, by fair means or foul, to achieve the ultimate glory of becoming an “Iranian American”…Now if that means begging financial support, hiring shady lawyers, doing menial jobs, marrying an old and ugly American widow,.. so be it: the end justifies the means, doesn’t it? National pride and dignity take a remote back seat when it comes to personal gain and benefit, especially when there is a question of US citizenship involved. If there is anyone with a right to complain, it is us, not you. WE sat through the revolution and war and sanctions and repression and… , we didn’t flinch. It’s all very well for you to sit in your cosy little apartments in LA and NY, telling other people about the evils of racism and discrimination and the “hardships” of life in the USA… Come off it, please. Iran is a country with a population of 70 million. Of these, only a select few have got the money and the connections necessary for getting jobs or scholarships abroad. The vast majority, without a single buck to bless themselves with and without any future to look to, just live from hand to mouth; never too sure where the next penny will come from and struggling, day in day out, to make ends meet in the face of inflation and unemployment…A child born into this type of familył however intelligent he/she may be, probably won’t even go to school (they are so expensive these days). Never mind going to the US for a PhD!! Now if that’s not a perfect example of “discrimination”, then I would like to hear one!! Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems discrimination of one type or another is perfectly OK as long as WE are the beneficiaries! Any fool can see that as citizens of a country regarded as a sponsor of international terrorism, Iranians are having it very easy in the United States. No, don’t give me that crap “ It’s the Iranian government, not the people”… The bunch of thieves and tarts running this countr ["Toooo long!" editors say, "Here: click to read the whole thing!"]
Dan Schmelzer at November 2, 2003 12:26 PM [permalink]:

Ghazal: The most effective thing for an Iranian student living in the US to do is to take it up with the proper authorities. In this case, that's his representatives in Iran.

AIS: As to "[a]ren't you saying that it looks suspicious when so many Iranians study physics in the US, that they will use it back in Iran against us?" No that's not what I'm saying. Rather, an Iranian physics student would know before coming here that there might be certain restrictions on his work, due to the subject matter and his nationality. The rational US policy would be to preclude the possibility that it will be used against us in any meaningful way back in Iran by placing such broad restrictions.

Overall, I don't think Iranian students studying in the US is very worrying. I'm of the opinion that we are educating them for living in US society, not for living in Iranian society. Iranian society is not specialized enough to maximize use of their skills, so where would they end up besides the US?

Vahid at November 2, 2003 03:33 PM [permalink]:

Ali Mahani:
I wanted to thank you for your frankness and honesty. I believe there is some truth, in what you said, and it certainly gave me something to think about.
To my dear freinds studing in States:
I know that American universities have the best standard of science. But there is very good sceince being done in other countries. It seems to me for some of you after spending few years in US, you may think, if you leave US, you have to sacrifice your academic carrier. But I think this is not entirely true, I am studing in Canada, am very satisfied with the upportunities that I have here. And even though, I am on student visa, I have not noticed any discrimination or racisem against me. If for any reason you decide not to return to Iran, I strongly suggest consider other western countries. I know that there is not enough upportunaties in Canada or Europe, but if you may found one. I think the freedom and peace of mind that you gain by leaving US are worth the effort to find an alternative.

Senior Grad at November 2, 2003 05:40 PM [permalink]:

Half-way through Ali Mahani's long (thank you so much, Ali! You made my comments look relatively short. You even beat someone as prolific as Arash Jalali in that) and eloquent, but oft-fallacious, comment, I was scratching my scruffy chin when suddenly the essence of his style finally dawned on me: Generalization!

Ali, you tend to generalize, even exaggerate, and therefore, using your magnificent verbal skills, over-dramatize the situation, no matter what the sitaution at hand might be. Your words are, IMO, of the type that can move the masses, but, even though there is a grain of truth in what you say, it's not all the truth, my friend.

I (and I'm sure many of us here) could respond to your accusations one by one in *such a way* that you, the smart and fair Ali Mahani that you are, retract some of your words without much hassle. But allow me to confine myself to just a few paragraphs, because the case I am going to make is so obvious.

"Iranian People" is not a monolith, Ali. If X kissed a mullah's hand, votes for another mullah, would marry an American witch only to get a green card, then why should Y be blamed for whatever X decides to do? Likewise, if Z falls victim to an unfair war, then W cannot logically get credit for that, although X, Y, Z, and W may all happen to be Iranian.

You are making the same mistake, or the same argument, that IRI makes in its public discourse regarding the Great Satan. Think for a moment, and just tell me, what it means to say "Death to the USA"? USA, for all I know, is not a living animal that can at some point die. This slogan just uses a stupid metaphor to convey anger directed at something we can't quite pinpoint that is originated from a civilization we don't quite understand. So we stick to a name, AMRIKA, and blame it for mistreating us as well as attribute to it a lot of good things. For there are aspects of America that we all love (am I falling prey to the generalizational fallacy?) and there are aspects of it that we dislike.

But forget America, American people, and American politicans and let's get back to Iranian people. On second thought, nah, I thought I'd have the stamina to go over your comment once more and provide a reply. But I guess I better give up. :-)

Senior Grad at November 2, 2003 06:12 PM [permalink]:

No, I guess I can't help myself. Let me roll up the sleeves then and come to the arena with bare hands. No daggers to stab you in the chest with and not even a rusty kitchen knife here to carry out a clitorectomy on you. ;-)

You set the tone of your argument(s), right at the outset, the way a skillful preacher would. Your arguments resemble the ones the honorable Mr. Qara'ati of Thursday eves used to employ on national TV (and during Ramadan, in the tradition of inexhastible American showmen such as Jay Leno and David Letterman) on every single evening and I'm sure managed to quite impress the crowd.

In your second paragraph, you suggest that since there are worse discriminations on earth than what a certain group G of people are enduring, then the members of G should better shut up and say nothing! Oh come on, Ali! Do you yourself buy this line of argument?

About the pleasure, material comfort, and prestige that comes with living in America, I am not in complete agreement with you. I agree about the prestige, but the so-called prestige is but a result of "Iranian people"'s collective reverence for those who come from AMRIKA. True, I have seen Iranians here who, not having quite noticed that other Iranians here have also made it to AMRIKA, do not let go of their disgusting aura of being so proud of themselves that, as the proverb goes, they seem to have fallen from an elephant's arse!

But the prestige is mainly reserved for the time when we come back to Iran and relate to you the beautiful tales of how much fun and "pleasure" we have had in AMRIKA. In fact, you shouldn't take us too seriously. Contrary to what we would like you guys to believe, there's not much pleasure or money here to be found on the streets (the joke about the naive villager who went to Tehran comes to mind: he was told that the streets of Tehran are covered with cash... and you know the rest!)

Becoming an Iranian-American does not bring that much of a joy either. Iranian-American is someone who can't be either fully Iranian anymore nor fully American. It's more often than not a quite painful condition to be in. It's a confusion that borders insanity (hence the word "asylum" ;-) )

However, I tend to agree with you, to some extent at least, about the empty patriotic sloganeering that some Iranian expatriates engage in. But again, if X tears himself apart when something good or bad happens in Iran (if it's good, then it's again bad, because he's no longer there to receive a share of the pie) and sheds alligator tears for VATAN [=homeland], then Y should not be called a liar and spit on, just because Y is also an Iranian living in the US. :-)

Okay, I'm gonna quit this babble. For real this time. My apologies, to you all.

-Anon at November 2, 2003 10:02 PM [permalink]:

As an American undergrad reading this I found it to be quite "eye-opening" to say the least. Iranians are not the first and unfortunately, will not be the last group to be discriminated against in America. Sadly, this is a fact of life here and even more so in Europe, where they can tell where you're from by the shoes you wear. But, this does not change the fact that we, refering to humanity, are guilty of some kind of stereotypical behavior or descrimination towards each other. Ask a Black or Latino person how many times they have been stopped by police because of their race or an Asian person how many times it has been assumed that they don't speak English. If you are not a male, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant in America- you are a minority. In other words, join the club.

The only thing that will get rid of discrimination on both ends is time, patience, understanding, and the will to forge a better future. I know I'm not the only American to believe that there are no "quick fixes" to the international crises and atrocities that have been committed in our name. No words of apology will ever really patch things up, but rather actions and lots of time are the only things that will help.

Many Americans look forward to 2004 and hope that Florida can sort out its voting procedures and the international community will celebrate with us January 20, 2005, when President Bush *hopefully* exits the Oval Office and a new president can begin to clean up the mess he made and rebuild the bridges he tore down. Let's all pray that the Supreme Court minds its own business this time around.

If you don't give a flea about what I've just said, that is okay. Many of you are far more educated than I am, but I ask you remember this the next time President Bush is doing something idiotic (probably in the next 20 seconds or so) and that is Bush DID NOT win the majority of votes in the last election, therefore, he never had the "vote of confidence" from the American people.

Ali Mahani at November 3, 2003 01:09 AM [permalink]:

Senior Grad-

Hey thanks, pal. That caps it all: comparing me to Qara'ati!!

Well I didnít really mean to generalise: there are all sorts of people with all sorts of mentalities living in Iran, USA or any other country. But I believe my remarks do apply to the majority of people living in Iran, and to a considerable proportion of our migrant students.

Ghazal at November 3, 2003 11:57 AM [permalink]:

Ali Manahni ,
As senior grad points out I think you are generalizing everything too far,
ďAs for our attitude towards the US at the grass roots level, just remember the football match between Iran and USA in 1998. Shortly after the final whistle, the streets of Tehran were swarming with oh-so-cherubic Iranian citizens (many of them drunk), who were burning American flags and screaming their heads off with chants of ďDeath to AmericaĒ Ö.Ē
I remember the football game but besides TV, I donít remember seeing or hearing from any of those who participated in the celebrations afterwards of any ďDeath to America ď chanting or any flag burning. But letís assume most citizens of Tehran as you claim were doing such things then again your argument only makes sense to me if you are implying that this event shows a typical attitude of Iranian people towards US.
Not only polls and other events donít support this claim but also the US government itself is not advocating such an idea publicly. What is publicly said is that Iranian people are friends and they are fighting for their freedom. Donít you think if the attitude of US had anything to do with people anti American sentiments there would have been other countries on the list?

Senior Grad at November 3, 2003 12:46 PM [permalink]:

Ali Mahani,

I also indirectly compared you to Jay Leno. :-) I don't think you can possibly have his mighty chin, but I hope you have a similar sense of humor. (Now, should I use :-) or ;-) ?)

Anyway, if there is any consolation, a dear friend also reprimanded me for criticising you. Apparently, your words speak out the sentiments of a (good?) number of Iranians.

Having said that, I resented to be considered as someone who would resort to murder to get a US visa, or a person who would kiss anybody's hand (my father is an exception). Neither do I think I deserve to be given credit for the suffering that those soldiers or civilians (who were killed or handicapped or lost their propertduring the war with Iraq) went through, just because I was also living in Iran during those 8 years.

Senior Grad
Ramadan 2003
NOT Tehran :-)

Senior Grad at November 3, 2003 01:05 PM [permalink]:

This is un-related to this posting, but isn't anybody going to post anything about the hardships we had to go through in Iran during the holy month of Ramadan? Maybe we should have a SANDOOGH-E PISHNAHAADAAT [don't know the English equivalent. sorry] here, perhaps right below or above the LINKDOONI, for ideas about postings.

Here's an item for that box:

I think one thing that must be reformed in Iran is requiring people who are officially muslim (and respect, albeit in varying degrees, the Islamic traditions) pray and fast in order to be accepted as citizens, and have access to the same opportunitues that other Iranians are entitled to.

The Islamic Republic has made the hypocrisy an absolute necessity. If I work in a government office, I cannot have my lunch in peace in the corner of the kitchen during the holy month of Ramadan, even if it is a cold sandwich with no aroma to make the fasting co-workers salivate and suffer. I would also have to pretend to be using the prayer room, or at least know where it is.

It is a constant source of nuisance in Iran to have to pretend to be what you are not. I think it is safe to estimate that the majority (50% + 1) of people who live in Tehran do not fast, not because they're ill or old or passengers or women during their time of the month, but beacuse they can't wake up for having SAHARI or simply because if they fast, then they get hungry. :-)

Our non-Iranian muslim brothers seem to be quite different from us in terms of their attitude. Prayer and fast, they do, no matter what. I have known Arab guys who had girlfriends (and yes, in the deepest sense of the word) and drank alcohol, but they would not let that deter them from attending to their religious duties, such as fasting and prayer.

In some Arab countries, the arrival of Ramadan colors the whole atmosphere of their big cities differently. They change the working hours of all the offices to accommodate the fasting ritual. In Iran, we don't. Okay, too much for an un-related comment. I'll stop.

Senior Grad at November 3, 2003 01:12 PM [permalink]:

Ghazal,

I didn't notice your last comment. Thank you for backing me up, and sorry for committing the crime of writing "irrelevant" comments below your post(ing) for the second time. :-)

Zahra at November 3, 2003 03:53 PM [permalink]:

Ghazal, It may be interesting for you to know that in last two years the number of Iranian (and also citizens of some other countries) who are applying to Canadian universities have increased incredibly. Canadian universities had never seen so many good students applying to their schools (my advisor who is also in the graduate committee of the department keeps asking me for a reason). This means that although the States has really better schools, it is not the first option for Iranian students who are applying abroad. It may be hard for you to quit your studies in the US just because of discriminations, after you spend a long time there and you are about to graduate, but I somehow feel lucky that I was denied a US visa.

A Reader at November 3, 2003 04:14 PM [permalink]:

Zahra: Feeling lucky is good for us, so I won't tell you whether your reason for it is valid or not.

Ali Mahani at November 3, 2003 11:58 PM [permalink]:

Senior Grad-

You said "I resented to be considered as someone who would resort to murder to get a US visa, or a person who would kiss anybody's hand"

OK, with that kind of mentality you are definitely one of "us", (ie the good, noble, glorious minority) and not the vast majority of Iranians, whom I prefer not to describe Ö. :-) :-)

About Jay Leno, sorry, never heard of him. You see, living in this God-forsaken hole, I never get a chance of watching American TV characters- and I ain't got satellite TV :-( :-(

And no, please don't attempt to spare my feelings- I donít need any consolation. If you feel like criticising me or my comments, just fire away.

Ghazal-

No I didn't mean to say everyone is like that. After all, I myself have got relatives in the US ;-)

Arash Jalali at November 4, 2003 04:29 AM [permalink]:

I can perfectly understand Zahra's point of view and why she feels lucky. It might sound to a lot of people as that old saying in Persian which says: "Whenever the cat cannot lay its hands on the meat, it will say that the meat stinks!". I personally do not see it that way. If this wave of brilliant Iranian students going to Canada and Europe instead of the U.S. continues, it is quite possible that we see a considerable rise in the level and quality of academic reseach in Canadian and European universities. I do not however think that American universities would lose much. There are enough good Chinese and Indian candidates that could perfectly fill the gap left by Iranians, unless of course, the American government's policies towards foreign students become so unacceptable that the Chinese and the Indians too chose to go to Canada and Europe instead. That's when I think Canada might experience the same scientific boom as America did during and after Word War II with the sudden rush of Jewsish scientist.

Jimi's Hat at November 5, 2003 07:18 AM [permalink]:

The solutions is very simple. Go back to Iran.

When two countries are hostile and have no political relationship, how do you expect anything to be better?
Imagine the Iranian government or military industry offered a few scholarships for scientific research. Do you honestly think, during our war with Iraq, there was any chance for any Iraqi student (citizen) to use those scholarships to persue his studies in Iran, and then return to Saddam Hossein's Iraq? I don't think so.
You were aware of all the things you mentioned when you came to the US. Didn't you know that Iran and US have no official relations? Did you not know that you need to travel to UAE or Cyprus for GRE/TOEFL exams? Did you not know that the US student visa is single entry and you can't get out of the States while you're a student?
If you really want to study outside Iran, there are very many other options such as European countries (English and non-english speaking universities), Canada, Australia & New Zealand, Japan, etc. You might be scared because you don't know German or French or Japanese, but firstly for a research degree (PhD) you can do your work in English. Secondly it is always nice to be paid to do research and learn a new language.
Regarding your last paragraph: even if you're going somewhere else other than US, you still need to go after all of those so-called "projects", except for going outside Iran to get the visa.
Do you tend to believe whatever Bush says? Do you believe whatever Khamenei says?

Zahra at November 5, 2003 10:48 AM [permalink]:

Arash, I feel lucky because here in Canada they don't deal with you like a foreigner, here you are what you are, based on what you do, not based on where you are coming from, or your colour. I agree that here is not the best country to study, but I feel here is one of the best places in the world to live. All people from all over the world are gathered here to leave in peace, they are not involved in any war, they are not bothering each other and other people in the world, they respect each other, and they donít commit crimes. This is why I love here, honestly, living here is really different with living in the state.

Let me give you an example, when I was going back to Iran, I sent my passport to a Canadian embassy and they gave me visa without interview, do you know any other country that gives visa to Iranians without interview and by post ?!!

I agree that US schools may not lose a lot, but I was only trying to show you that studying in US is not the first choice anymore, at least for Iranian students. I also should mention that a lot of Chinese students were unable to get US visa in last 2 years, as well as Iranians, and even Russians. The only people who donít have any trouble yet are Indians, and south Asians.


Arash Jalali at November 5, 2003 01:30 PM [permalink]:

Maryam, as I said, I can perfectly understand why you feel that way, and I think I would have felt the same way if I were in your shoes. In fact, that is why I might pursue my academic goals in Europe rather than North America. Not because the North American "meat" stinks, but because I believe there's a price tag attached to everything. I personally do not think am ready to pay that kind of a price for this meat!

Mismatch Error at November 5, 2003 07:09 PM [permalink]:

Zahra,

"do you know any other country that gives visa to Iranians without interview and by post ?!!"
Yes, all countries in the EU give visas to Iranians with no interview, as long as you're a student in Europe (EU countries both within and outside the Schengen agreement). You send your documents by post, and they will return your passport with a visa in it by post. That's why, if you have the money, you can travel all over europe with no problem (even to eastern europe).

Kristen at November 6, 2003 03:25 AM [permalink]:

As a US citizen, I apologize for the difficulties and discrimination you have faced here. Was it easier prior to Sept. 11th? It is unfortunate that you, as an individual, are made to carry the burden of the relationship between our two countries.

Ghazal: A lot of what you said in your original post rings true. But not because of any relation to Iran. My husband is a Mexican citizen who has been able to immigrate due to our marriage. So many of the problems you wrote of have happened to he and I too! In fact, when we drive between Arizona and California we are stopped at roadblocks several times so that the Border Patrol can check his papers. He is not Muslim, he has never been accused of being a terrorist and last I checked, Mexico was not included in that silly Axis of Evil. (sounds like something out of a comic book, doesn't it?)

I suppose I'm saying that the INS, or BCIS, or whatever they're calling themselves now, is an equal opportunity discriminator. They are a government bureaucracy like any other. Most US citizens, not having to deal with the INS, have no idea how it is run or its problems. I would suggest the best way to fight the system would be to let US citizens know of the discrimination and difficulty you've encountered. If enough complain, it can be changed. It is unfortunate that for the most part government officials in the US only care about the complaints of those who vote.

mammad at November 6, 2003 01:41 PM [permalink]:

Dear Mismatch Error ,

I assume UK is a part of EU and they need interview to issue a tourist visa for residents. It is even worse than US interviews, they ask something like : what do you think about khatami? ...

as Zahra said this single entry visa story also applies to students from China ans Russia.

SINA at November 7, 2003 03:43 AM [permalink]:

[Editors: this message was deleted based on the Rule #2 of comment policy]

A Reader at November 7, 2003 11:28 AM [permalink]:

Agha Mehrad kehily mokhlesim. Vali inhayee ke daf'e dovom neveshti ye joorhaayee tohim amiz bood. Americaayee haa faramoosh kardand kia sarmayehaye aslie keshvareshon hastand ba'd hamin tori be daneshjoohamoon ke baraye visa apply mikonanad "tohin" ham bokonanad dar sefarat o begand na! Hamin ke begand "na" tohine bozorgie. chetorie ke age ye Oroopayee ya har keshvari ke passport nemikhad bedoone passport ham mitoone varesde US beshe hatta age bekhad kharab kari kone bad ye daneshjooe Irani mesle daste gol ke hich kari ham ba siasat nadare bayad behesh na ham gofte mishe hich, tohin mishe hich, sarneveshtesh ham avaz beshe.

[translation by the editors:

Mr. Mehrad, I'm a devotee (this is a persian greeting slang)! But what you wrote this second time was somewhat insulting. Americans have forgotten who is their country's main investment, then they insult the students who apply for a visa in their embassies and tell them "no" just like that! How is it that a European or some other nationality who doesn't even need a passport to enter can go there even if he wants to make trouble but an Iranian student like a bouquet of flower who doesn't have anything to do with politics not only is told no, and is insulted, but his fate is changed.

Editors' note: editors kindly ask commenters to leave theoir comments in English. If that's not possible due to any reason, please contact editors at free[at]freethoughts.org for help.]

A Reader at November 7, 2003 11:34 AM [permalink]:

Zahra,

I just have a quick question for you. Were you denied US visa?! Which school did you wanna attend?

Ali Mahani at November 7, 2003 11:49 PM [permalink]:

Ghazal : "For now I prefer it, if I can get a good job in Canada instead of US where there is less discrimination but if I don’t, .... I am still willing to take the discrimination for a little longer ... as long as I have hope that it will be over soon."

Ermmm... how about returning to your beloved homeland, where you are likely to get the least "discrimination" and even be among the "elite"??!!

Ghazal at November 8, 2003 02:37 AM [permalink]:

Dear Ali Mahani,
Are you trying to be sarcastic? Do you imply that I think, I will be the least discriminated in Iran?
In any case Itís easy for me to answer your question as right now I am looking for a temporary postdoctoral job where I can work with a more experienced scientist in my field of work so I can work on my own later.

Ali Mahani at November 8, 2003 08:09 AM [permalink]:

Ghazal-
The point I am trying to make is that discrimination-wise, Iran is the best place to be because it's your own home and you are not likely to be discriminated against or racially abused in your own country. So if you are really that upset with racism in US and elsewhere you can always return to good old Iran (after getting your degree, of course), unless you have some other reasons/motives for lengthening your stay and look for jobs in the US or, say, Canada..

You say: "Itís easy for me to answer your question as right now I am looking for a temporary postdoctoral job where I can work with a more experienced scientist in my field of work so I can work on my own later".

Excuse my dullness, but I don't quite get it. Does that mean a job in Iran, or somewhere else?

A Reader at November 8, 2003 11:38 AM [permalink]:

I don't know whether you have had the same feeling as I am or not. Considering that the only reason you wanna leave the country is just for persuing your studies in one of the good universities in stataes or Canada. When you are in Iran, you think that whatever is done in North America is great and everything is perfect regardless of what opportunities you might have in your own country. Am I right?

Anonymous at November 8, 2003 12:12 PM [permalink]:

Some people believe that woring or studying in Iran is a waste of time which is dead wrong. Don't you think so?

Saeed at November 8, 2003 12:33 PM [permalink]:

Ali Mahani,

I think the point Ghazal trying to make is clear. It's not about coming back or staying. It's about a human right issue.... Are you supporting discrimination or what? It is just absurd to say if you don't like it come back.

Ali Mahani at November 8, 2003 01:11 PM [permalink]:

Saeed-

How can you think I support discrimination? Just read my first post on this page and you see I've made myself quite clear on that issue.

Point is, there are many different types of discrimination and victims of one type may well happen to be beneficiaries of another. Naturally in the latter case they are not so vocal in their condemnation of this phenomenon.

Seems despite the constant moans and gripes I keep reading, at the end of the day the majority of these "victims" choose to stay where they are, instead of coming back and (don't laugh) serving their own country.

After all, you people love your homeland, don't you??!!

Ghazal at November 8, 2003 02:03 PM [permalink]:

I meant that returning to Iran is irrelevant for me right now as there is no such person that I can work with.
I agree with you that the picture of ďAmericaĒ most of us have before leaving Iran is illusion and is not quite true and I also donít think studying in Iran is a waste of time at all. It depends on the person and the field they are studying. Some of the best Iranian physicists I know finished their studies in Iran.
I like to point out that going to study in another country or getting a postdoctoral job in another country is not equivalent to immigration and these are quite natural and even necessary in science as people are supposed to get experience and visit different scientific places. It is considered strange if someone studies in the same place where he has done his undergraduate studies or even gets a postdoctoral job in the same place! So aside from any other issue I think it is wise to encourage our students to look for other opportunities for their scientific goals not only because there arenít enough recourses or facilities to train all of them but because it will help our science community not to get isolated from the rest of the world.
The question of why most of these trained people even those whose studies were funded by Iranian government are not encouraged enough to go back to Iran, even though they wonít be discriminated base on their citizenship anymore, has its own roots and needs or maybe had a separate post but the bottom line is that I donít think the solution to Iranian students being discriminated in US is to make people stay in Iran, but I would recommend those who are willing to come to ďUSĒ to reconsider their options both in Iran and other countries before making their decisions due to these problems.

A Reader at November 8, 2003 02:44 PM [permalink]:

I agree with your idea and understand what you mean. As you pointed out, the true image of the united states, Canda, or even Europe is not a reall image for us Iranians. This is what they, including myself, have heard from others and since we haven't had any experience we think it's perfect. We don't really know what a perfect life is and WHAT WE ARE REALLY LOOKING FOR.
I have learnt that this is the a common behavior of humans that we see just the positive or negative points and neglect what the fact of the matter is. This question was in my mind for a while, where is US or Canada or ... that everybody makes it there, don't come back home.
When I made it here, I could find a real answer for that which makes sense. The reason is not people are completley happy with their situation or it's not because they have a hard life in Iran. The reason is, people get use to their new environment and losing the new things is very difficult for them if not impossible.

Notwithstanding the fact that living in Iran and (or in the best case studying at the highest level such as PhD or so) is not as easy as it is in the west, there are other aspects which make
the decison a little bit difficult. As Ghazal pointed out, one should seriously decide where he wants to go and stay. No matter whether you are in Canada or US or... The situation in the US is probably the worst case due to the difficulties mentioned above but this is true for other places as well. I truly believe if you try hard for getting something it worth than obtaining something very easy. That time, you will really realize how life is sweet and you will enjoy working in your homeland despite the fact you might face a lot of problem.

Ali Mahani at November 10, 2003 07:20 AM [permalink]:

Oookaaay, just a word to close this topic:

After hearing the heart-rending account of the ordeal you are going through in a hostile, savage, racist US of A, I am going to do you lot a favour:

I am ready to make the ultimate sacrifice of swapping places with any US-based Iranians who find the racism and discrimination in the USA too much to bear. I would even take crash courses and get university degrees in physics, astronomy, astrophysics, nuclear physics, philosophy ... and a thousand other subjects which I don't know the first thing about. Just to help you and for the love of your blue (dark?) eyes.

Surely you can't abandon your compatriots just like that, can you?

A Reader at November 14, 2003 03:32 PM [permalink]:

i need to know more about this before i make my main commmet thanks
collins uk ( NIGERIA )

N at May 12, 2004 10:56 AM [permalink]:

Dear Ghazal,

I lived in europe and The USA and as an education level I went all the way, you should mainly forget about what you read from others here. You want to get some where, therefore you went to the USA, so be patient and focus on your education and this is my promise to you, you will be successful. there is no short cut and stop acting like an iranina and stop complaining! Sacrify your proud and use the system for your own benefit. N

lipitor at May 23, 2004 05:21 PM [permalink]:

clone, n:
1. An exact duplicate, as in "our product is a clone of their
product." 2. A shoddy, spurious copy, as in "their product
is a clone of our product."
lipitor

lipitor at May 23, 2004 06:23 PM [permalink]:

"Let every man teach his son, teach his daughter, that labor is honorable."
-- Robert G. Ingersoll
lipitor

people from canada at September 3, 2004 11:10 PM [permalink]:

Iranians and the rest of persians countries or arabic should think about what they have done and why they got attacked by united states of american. If Iran didn't do anything wrong then why don't U.S attack east asia or south america or any other part of the world. Think about it all the iranians.

people from canada at September 3, 2004 11:15 PM [permalink]:

by the way I hope Canada or U.S will kick every persians out of north america because they don't deserve to live in that part of the planet. They should all return to their countries since those persians like to praise the history of their countries. So I guess if their countries are that good like iran or iraq, why the hell do those persians want to come to u.s. or canada. Stop flooding to these countries. You guys have no rights to be here.

The European folks at September 4, 2004 01:10 AM [permalink]:

Dear Canadian people,

First of all, you should improve your English.

Second, you Colonial Mongrols should go back to the gutters that you came from and leave the land to the original natives, the Indians... though you have mixed too much with all sort of human garbage in North America and will not fit for Europe anymore. Thus we suggest that you settle down among the Gypsies of Romania or the Talibans of Tora Bora mountains of Afganistan.

Hatefuly and racistically yours,

The European folks.

mahdiye at October 3, 2004 07:18 AM [permalink]:

salam

Abbas Hosseini shahsavar at October 18, 2004 07:55 AM [permalink]:

Hi
I Live in province Bamyan AFGHANESTAN
I have diploma from Iran
I want to study in Univercity USA
Please help me for to study in Amerika
I want to help my Country
Ferst You are must help me
TANKE YOU

samadkhan at October 24, 2004 02:45 AM [permalink]:

my name is samad khan

i was born in afghanistan

i high school graduated from a pakistani school

i have no source to study in amarica


because i want make my self practical educated and help my country in best way

if there is any one please contact me to call me to amarica and get admissiom for me there

najla ayubi at January 13, 2005 07:50 AM [permalink]:

I am an afghan girl from Parwan Provence, now I am living in Kabul. I Graduated from Faculty of Law and Politics from the Government University of Tajikistan and I have Master degree. Now I want to continue my PhD Graduation .Can you please support and guide, me how I can find the chance to improve my knowledge and I look forward to have your support.

Mohammad Naeem Khan at July 16, 2005 11:08 PM [permalink]:

Respected sir,
i completed my master of information technalogy in pakistan and i would like to take addmision in my specilization course like software enginnering in amarica.so dear sir i need complete information about the study of software engineering in amarica.kindly help me by any way i will like to hear from you.

thanks
Naeem

sulakshana ghimire at August 12, 2005 08:28 AM [permalink]:

i am a student studng in campus .i had heard that u r suppling a scholarship to those student who n in problem.i am also that student who want help from u .i am borh in a small village n my famaily status is very poor .i want urs help to get my proper knowledge. plz sir help me

LEILA at August 21, 2005 02:37 AM [permalink]:

hi
pleas help me I would like to continue my education,how can I take a educational visa for US and if I want to educate in US are there any association that help me and give me a scholarship and aftetr that I finish my education work for them or during my education I work for them.my major is psychology and I have my bachelor.my father died and I can not pay education costs but I can work .
thanks alot

reza hoseini at September 2, 2005 05:35 AM [permalink]:

to all iranian .hi. inhame badbakhti haghe shomast .man afghani hastam .dar iran zendegi mikonam va az tahsilat mahroom shodam na faghat man balke hameye ma afghaniha BECAUSE I AM AFGHANI AND U R IRANI AND HATE US I WANT STUDY I WANT TO BE A GOOD MAN AND HELP TO WHO HE HELP TO ME I CANNOT STUDY IN IRAN PLEASE HELP TO ME THAT STUDY EVERYWHERE MY FATHER IS SICK AND COULDNOT MOVE OR WORK OR EAT WELL OR.... I CAN WORK AND STUDY PLEASE HELP TO ME. I AM POOR BUT LOVE HUMAN IF YOU CAN HELP ME PLEASE SEND TO REZAGHOLAM2@YAHOO.COM AN EMAIL WITH THIS SUBJECT HELP TO A HUMAN I AM 21 YEARS OLD GREEN EYE GREEN HAIR AND WHITE AND MALE .THANK YOU FOR READ THIS FOLISH.

ramkrishna at December 22, 2005 08:20 PM [permalink]:

yeah! theres lot of discrimination USA.

bita mirali at December 30, 2005 12:09 PM [permalink]:

hi iam an iranian girl who doesnt want to live for future in iran i want you to help me. i really want to continue my education in america not iran .and please tell me how can i take educational visa for us .and another thing is that iam only17 years and im studing in highschool.i can speak english but im not perfect.
thank you

m & m at December 30, 2005 12:43 PM [permalink]:

i think if we are iranian and we live in iran it dosnt mean that we love our president or it doesnt mean that we are foolish too . yes i belive that iran is going to be worst cus of some men that they control iran but that doesnt mean that we are killer or we are terrorist. i actually do not agree with them cus they are playing with iranian peopel and they are using us to get what they want and exactly they dont think that we are human .im so sorry but they are fucking at world.they mock america and they are making student against world cus they are (peopel of the world)not islamic,and it is really stupid .and they have made young iranians to think about some shit and do not take care about their country and what is going on? it is really stupid but ican sea that young iranians are just taking care of their style of hair and clothes and their girl friend and boy friend not poletic . but it is not their fault cus if you talk about poletic tomorrow you are not alive , i know thats funny . but its actually like this and its none of your bussines that what is the meaning of poletic? yes that is what they have told us :it is like this ,like it or not,just shut your mouth and live.funny but we are living hard in iran cus of some shits.im so sorry if i hurt you with some truth about iran .but thats it ,like it or not.president should go not 6 million peapel or may be more.

arghavan from tabriz at January 18, 2006 12:55 PM [permalink]:

i think they have do wrose whith you because they can not understand differents between politicion and social communicate scince...and they have mix up them.
in iran we can not feel confortable in foreign countries too really what we can do??we must...

simeon at October 15, 2006 09:31 AM [permalink]:

am searching for good school that don't aspect toefl, pls can u link me to the site

saeed farhad at October 22, 2006 06:58 AM [permalink]:

i want study in amarica or canda

saeed farhad at October 22, 2006 07:02 AM [permalink]:

i want to go amarica or canada for studeing of busnisse administration or marketing or relgional studeis

supre at November 27, 2006 01:16 PM [permalink]:

im intrested in coming to the us to study.i need a friend that will help put ,me through.i hope to have a commiteed friend.

elmar at January 22, 2007 04:01 PM [permalink]:

hi
iam studing in Khazar University in Azerbaijan , i wish to continue my education abroad especially in Canada in Usa, please help me , i would like to know where should i apply for it , u can test me , i want to gain scholarship fro free studing
great thank....

Kamol at March 5, 2007 11:49 AM [permalink]:

My name is Kamol surname is Buronov i was born in 1985 in Navbakhor city. my berthday is on the first of may. i work in the art college. my job is a consertmister. my future plan is to aroun the world and learn custom of the on foriegn countre is . I am fond of sport. i am go for a tennes. my hobby is listen to music.
Greetings I from Uzbekistan my name is Kamoliddin. I want studies in London, but two years I can not already receive the visa. I have acted Byllerbys college, but несмог to take the visa, несмог studies. Please advise, that is necessary to me that there studies.
If I shall begin to cry for a year, and несмогу to take the visa as I can there studies. If there is an output
That advise me. I look forward to hearing from you. I strongly want studies

Mohammad Edrees "Akbaryar" at June 8, 2007 04:28 AM [permalink]:

I am an Afghan Student in Russia, when i came over here i didn't like the situation over here, now i want to visit America if it is possible, i worked with Americans when i was in Afghanistan with DynCorp Internation organization, for about 3 years, i have certificates and also a Medal which Ambassador of America in Afghanistan gave me, i can not go back to my country because i got warnings when i was working with americans, unknown peoples warned me and my family, i eccaped from Afghanistan and i came to Russia, now i don't like the situation over here, because i got habbit with American people, and culture, i love to talk in english ever, and i don't want to lose my 3 years experience which i got worked with Americans, if you can help me in this way, it will be your kind on me and on my family. thanks in advance.

Best Regards
Mohammad Edrees "Akbaryar"
Krasnodar - Russia
+7 918 248 3091

azarin at June 18, 2007 09:25 AM [permalink]:

dear Ghazal:
hi? how r u? I am a girl from iran. i study physics in tehran university ... and i like to continue my studies in usa... which university do u study in? what did u do for going there? what should i do for coming usa? where i found in your post u study Quantom physics...and your husband studied astronomical physics....is it right?
thanks
azarin

OSMAN A KARIM at June 26, 2007 05:05 PM [permalink]:

Hello,
please i am a student from Ghana who want help from all over the world to study verry well so please reply me back and tell me more about your terms.but i am 18 years of age.
THANK YOU.

m.afzaal ghous at July 16, 2007 09:38 AM [permalink]:

i am a civil draftsman . i am 36 yers old i want to lern more in my field . like one or two yers diploma in architecture field .
'
please help me .

afzaal ghous
424 pak block
allama iqbal town lahore pakistan.

reza at August 21, 2007 01:06 AM [permalink]:

salam,mikhastam age mishe darbareye tahsil dar amrica baram tozih bedi va inke onga aya iraniha azad hastand va inke aya tahsil dar oonga behtar az irane?ba tashokor az you.have nice time.

Nadeem zahir at August 30, 2007 06:31 AM [permalink]:

i am in the problem plz sir help me i want the visa to study in the america there is the alots of problem with me and a more family problems also plz sir contact me soon i am in the problem

augustine at September 10, 2007 05:29 AM [permalink]:

u are extra o and no one will
have any thing bad to say about you.

gurbir singh at November 6, 2007 08:34 AM [permalink]:

Respected Sir
Am student of B.Sc(IT).My father is a un-educated person .my life is very struggleful.
If i want to do study my father dont afforded it.he dont know about the value of study .i want to do MBA
but condition of my home very bad .due to that reason there are some condition arises where i can stop our study .If you can reply me than i can improve our english . if you give me any chance to doing study in Amarica than its really very good news for .my parents just give me all charge of tickets .am waiting your mail .please pity on me .
am really very thankful to you.