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September 30, 2003

Nuclear pizza
Hamed Seyed-allaei  [info|posts]

blackout.jpg Last sunday at 3:20 am , there was a nationwide blackout in Italy due to a disconnection in the powerline that imports electricity from France. A blackout at night might seem strange especially when the consumption of electricity during nights is half of the total national electricity production. In fact at that time most of Italian power planet were shut down because Italy prefers to import electricity instead of producing it, due to economical reasons. It was not clear to me, why they import electricity at all? Can't they build a nuclear power plant and produce cheap electricity?

The answer to these questions goes back to 16 years ago. Italy used to be the third most developed country in terms of nuclear energy in the 1960s, after the US and the UK. In 1987 Italy had four fully functional nuclear power plants plus many more under construction. Also they had all related necessary organizations including training centers, research institutes such as INFN and companies like Ansaldo to produce nuclear devices and instruments. Therefore, they were almost independent. After the Chernobyl disaster, people voted to shut down all nuclear power plants because of their high level of risk. Now Italy is the only G8 country that does not have any nuclear plant and has to import electricity from French nuclear plants that are near the Italian border. This is the way Italian people think about the nuclear energy.

Hooman at September 30, 2003 02:21 PM [permalink]:

What many developed countries actually think is something like:

1- extermely expensive to maintain in the long run.
2- exteremly hard to maintain.
3- hazardous to environment. In US and Canada there are mountains of used uranium that won't go away.
4- potentially dangerous.

Many developed countries are closing down their nuclear power plants. Germany is the first to set a date to shut them down altogether.

But what should it be replaced with? Canada is facing the same problem. Ontario, once exporting provice, is sometimes imports power. You would think wind power. Read "Against wind power" in my blog.

saoshyant at September 30, 2003 03:02 PM [permalink]:

The fact that something is both in principle and practice is not wise to do makes you succumb to the inevitability of what you call "necessity".

If it is so, I think you beg to agree with the B^B to intervene in Iraq. Another reminder, arguments are inevitability are not very strong. If I have misunderstood you, however, I humbly appologize.

It is quite obvious that you are so passionate about your national pride that you have said in other postings in a passive compassionate way, if my description is incorrect I further appologize, that poor ordinary Iranian may suffer for a short time, and issue similar statements resorting to "pride".

First, the more you sound passionate about the less you encourage people to listen to you, this is a friendly reminder.

Second, even if people agree with you, why are not you addressing the question that this Nuclear Plant is not necessarily "a quality" product, but most possibly a Chernobyl style piece of crap.

Third, hey hey stop man, let us ride on together!

People of Iran have been suffering from the mismanagagment and corruption for the past 25 years (one year short), is it a short period? What convinces you to claim authority over how people can cope and/or be decided upon to suffer due to a range of policy faux pas?!! Not to mention corruption!

Of course, if there is no way that you grant the benefit of the doubt to others, who oppose this decision concerning N Plant,by critically refelcting upon your own position: Be my guest, go ahead and play the famous game of joe has it/jane has it why we don't, or say everybody is corrupt, what is the problem; As Churchill's famous saying goes: For the one who is provoked by a conviction nothing else is convincing (Memoirs).

Fourth, Russia is trying to sell us this N Plant and you are referring to Germany's problems, well, then why Russia, through the IEA, is so actively in search of prospects for Renewable Energy?

According to the same source there are other economic and technical reasons taht Renewables can work and are not put into practice, why and what can be an "Alternative Scenario"

Fifth, Well, the International Energy Organization suggests that if distribution of renewable sources of energy is done on local and regional basis in fact it is very prodcutive. Of course, it is not an easy task, but well if countries like the US would spend the same amout of money that they did on the Manhatan project, the results will show it is not such a far-fetched dream.

Sixth, you mentioned Ontario,

OK! there is your response from the to-be Premier of Ontario Dalton MacGuinty who is reported to have said and or indicated, in the Canadian National Paper the Globe and Mail:

"The Liberals say they would expand the existing hydro installation at Niagara Falls, build new gas-fired generating plants, and construct small hydro-electric stations around the province on rivers where the government has rights."

In addition, Mr. McGuinty said, "we are going to establish a renewable portfolio standard that would see 5-per-cent clean and green electricity being generated by the year 2007, 10-per-cent by the year 2010."

I am really sorry, I had decided to declare a five day moratorium on posting, I just could not.

saoshyant at September 30, 2003 03:03 PM [permalink]:

BTW, the above addresses Hooman or WhoMan.

Vahid at September 30, 2003 03:32 PM [permalink]:

Hamed, What was it like during the blackout? Was there a lot of trouble around your resident? Was it scary?

Hooman at September 30, 2003 03:36 PM [permalink]:


I almost wrote some answers to your questions to set your mind right about myself. I deleted them and I bound to this, instead as it seem useless:

In short you got it all wrong!!! You jump a lot into conclusions. But it is obvious that you and I would have more common ground if met in person. I wish you had read some of my comments in my blog to realize where I am coming from.

Good Bye.

soashyant at September 30, 2003 04:08 PM [permalink]:

Hooman, then I will read your weblog.

Hamed at October 1, 2003 07:44 AM [permalink]:

In my city, the blackout last 1 hour so I did not feel it. In the southern Italy it was much worth and it last 12 hours. Buy the way, at that time sky was verey beautiful :-)

Amir at October 2, 2003 02:41 AM [permalink]:

north america, London and then italy ?!!

Ontario Electricity at February 1, 2004 09:41 AM [permalink]:

There is a lot of info on Ontario hydro and the blackout with the link I have added.

madashell at February 27, 2004 05:12 PM [permalink]:

The blackout in Ontario, Canada has resulted in a lot of voluntary conservation of electricity. At night many buildings are turned off or largely turned off. The government is paying a small sum to people who buy energy efficient appliances. Many people want to conserve so they are careful to turn off lights. But the government of Ontario is still using nuclear though there have been many problems with the nuclear plants. The problem is to find the money to convert coal generators to gas and build the smaller hydro plants since the government has a huge deficit it inherited from the extremely right wing government which privatized power using the advise of Enron. One problem that has been revealed is government corruption by the previous right wing government and the population growth and urban sprawl.