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September 10, 2003

 Media 
“I'm Persian!”
Hossein Khiabanian  [info|posts]

whoopi.jpg"I'm not Arab, I'm Persian! It's so obvious! You can tell the difference!"—Nasim in the new NBC sitcom Whoopi.

Last night NBC premiered a new sitcom called "Whoopi", starring Whoopi Goldberg as a three-star hotel owner in New York City, Mavis.

One of the characters of the show, the so-called handyman, is an Iranian guy played by the British comedian Omid Djalali (he is originally Iranian as you can tell by the name). He has previously played some roles in the movies "The Gladiator" and "The Mummy" and is quite famous in Britain for his ethnic comedy and has also won some awards.

This is the first time that a Middle Eastern character has an important role in an American network sitcom. The Iranian origin of Mr. Djalali has added a lot to the character of Nasim (a girl name?). He is somehow anti-Arab (he loses his temper and starts a fight when anybody calls him an Arab) and not really used to diversity. One time he is telling Mavis how overwhelming he finds the diversity in the US and complains that Portuguese are all over the place! He ends: "the problem with this country is that you don't know who your neighbor is!" In the next episode he'll express his fear of Chinese people because of SARS!

I found it quite amusing to see a typical Iranian guy in a sitcom on TV. Not that I'm proud of these characteristics or I think all Iranians are like that, but firstly, I think a social satire should be like that: you are criticizing people for their bad social habits and quite frankly I've seen lots—and heard even more—of Iranians expressing feelings that border a strange "Iranian-ized" racism, which I'm not going to discuss here, since it deserves another post. Secondly, I even believe that Mr. Djalali's character is loveable for normal viewers which would give us a nice little break.

We have to wait and see how Nasim's interactions with diverse New York culture and Mavis's brother, a conservative Republican lawyer, will go.

Comments
Vahid at September 10, 2003 09:24 PM [permalink]:

I fear Chinies when they are driving and when i go to library as seeing they are hitting books.
Actually when they are laughing i could see then they are eating the world.Hating Arabs is obvious for all of Iranians.

yahya at September 10, 2003 10:34 PM [permalink]:

There is a need for a comprehensive study to see how much of Iranian racism is based on the perceptions that they have formed in Iran and how much of it is a result of things that they have learned from the culture of North America.

Another point I want to make is that some to the racism among other minorities is induced as a result of racism on them. For example, if Iranian racism against Arabs is fueled by American racism against Iranians because Iranian try to deflect the racism against themselves to Arabs. This true for other minorities as well. For examples, when people were polled after 911 whether Middle Eastern should be put under survilance, African-American voted in support of it more than any other minority.

Now that I am writing this post, I can see a Bangladeshi Muslim, who is a student here, in the other side of the room. When we, Iranians, were required to get finger printed last year, he told me, with a smile on his face, how citizens of Bangladesh are not required because their country doesn't have religious extremism! Few days later, Mr. Ashcroft added 21 more Muslim countries to special registeration( fingerprinting) list, Bangladesh among them. Right after I heard the news, I had a sinister smile on my face because I knew this guy gets fingerprinted. Ok, this story wasn't about racism, but I wanted to tell you were that feeling of "deflecting racism" comes from.

LaC at September 10, 2003 11:33 PM [permalink]:

Hi,

I was raised in Abadan and had many many friends and classmates with Arab ethnic background and neither I nor any of my non-Arab friends once felt superior to our Arab friends. Saying that, we ALL had a common dislike for folks across the river in Iraq. I still remember walking in groups from school to home and singing some songs about how brave Iranians were and how cowards Iraqis were (there were some border clashes between two countries at that time). Anyhow, keep in mind that regardless of West's involvement in Iran-Iraq war, it was Iraqis with the help of other Arab countries, both militarily and financially as well as in forms of so called volunteer personnel, who invaded Iran and caused enormous death and damage. It is natural to “hate” those who killed your friends and destroyed your hometown!

Borzumehr at September 16, 2003 09:55 PM [permalink]:

Yahya,
I know what you mean. Interestingly it is not just found among poeple form a middle eastern (or muslim) origin.
After September 11 I was watching German channels back in Iran, and I was amazed by how Germans overdid the outbursts of their feelings in front of the camera. I still remember a German woman crying and claiming, almost in a yell, how she can *never* understand the mentality of those who are able to commit such acts of violence. It was funny because Auschwitz and Dachau were not more than a few hundred kilometers away from were she stood and what went on there did not happen millenia but just fifty years ago.
To me at least it seemed the Germans were not missing any chance of 'enjoying'(well that's perhaps a little too powerful a word to use here, but you get what I mean) the experience of the first similar condition to take place after the second world war in which they were not the main villains.

What happened afterwards during the months before and after the war in Afghanistan and more so the war in Iraq in Germany and among its population, seems to verify my guess as to their sincerity back in 2001.


kdkdkd at October 1, 2003 04:49 PM [permalink]:

im from toronto...damn...just wanted 2 say that i feel racism everywhere...and its tru..EVEN in CANADA we have it...jews are EXTREMLY racist...ESPECIALLY the ones from isreal..i mean we DO burn their flags every now and then, but c'mon..no 1 really likes em!!hehe..maybe thats a lil harsh..anyyways/../the SHOW IS AWSOME and me as a persian don ever wanna be called an arab. we are the ones with the 098387093809390 years of civilization...we are PERSIANS...not arab..PERSIANS...when we concured a town..we NEVER touched their women nor their kids...we gave them the right to keep their own lang. and their own religion..we persians should always remember...bein called arab..is like calling you a black man WHITE...i donnu about u guys..but im proud 2 be persian..FROM IRAN, tehran..and im proud 2 be muslem..and u know what...when i see americans sayin "HOW COULD SOME1 DO THAT" like after 9/11...i just wanna say..HOW CAN U GUYS ATTACK IRAQ...and DON FIND SHIT AFTER months?! huh?what happend 2 all those ATOMIC bobs?nuclear weapons my ass!!u wanted oil..and some more BASEs in mid east...u think USA was afarid of sadam and the chance of them attackin USA? HELL NO...sadam wouldnt even think about attackin US..they wanted 2 FUCK ISREAL..and guess what? USA is bein controlled by the jews..and jews got the money...so...money talks...if i wan usa..i would have done the same thing...but now what?!lotta ppl in iraq died...lotta beutiful lands turnd into sand..and less treat on the jews...maaannnnn....when white ppl talk about mid east and muslims..makes me go GRRRRR...and the sniper guy...how his LAST named CHANGED 2 mohhamad or whatever...
ok..ppl...WHEN SOME1 BECOMES MUSLIM..THEIR LAST NAME NEVER CHANGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
why no1 talked about this in CNN? when mohhamad ali KELE or whatever u wanna spell his last name(the boxer) turn into islam..he didnt change his last name...cuz no1 does that..he changed his first name into MOHAMMAD ALI...and NO1 SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT this on CNN or NBC..u know why? usa is jam packed with stupid ppl..stupid ppl listen 2 media..media says the sniper was muslim...guess what?muslims are all snipers!!and they all wanna kill ppl!!ohh man...EVEr1 knows osama is a fucked up muslim...what he says are rite from his ass...but no1 in CNN talks about how osama is bringin BULLSHIT facts about islam that doesnt exist..in order to find an excuze for him self 2 attack usa..noooo..they say that he says "if a muslim kills an american..he will go 2 heaven" now u find that in my holly book..and ill convert into a jew!! but no..CNN doesnt say thats not tru..they say osama said that...mann..am i pissed or what?
now i loved the show..and i personally do not like arabs..cuz they always playes dirty soccer!!!(a lil jk for u guys:D)
ya man..when their up a goal or somethin..all of em seem 2 get REALLT weak..and whenever somethin happens they have 2 get outa the feild..and use some of those MAGIC sprays...and they will just become alive again...sometimes makes me think about what do they have in those sprays..!hehe..'nof talkin for me...laters guy
btw..im only 15..but kinda a politic freak:D

Best ReGards

Lauren at October 19, 2003 01:13 PM [permalink]:

I haven't seen the show, but I think the point of making this character "Nasim" be somewhat racist is to make him seem more human. No human of any ethnicity has not fallen into the trap of feeling hatred, stereotyping, or harboring ignorant views. I don't think the intent of the program is to stereotype Iranians as racist. In fact, I think it has the opposite intention - to identify and emphasize the core similarities between people - the good and the bad - and by doing so, affirm that we are all essentially human.
Sorry if am I being confusing or stating the obvious.
(p.s. what exactly is the definition of "Arab," "Persian," etc. I'm wicked dumb.)

Lauren at October 19, 2003 02:04 PM [permalink]:

um, yeah, I just read the post of the guy before me and I just wanna let you know...
1) It sounds like you're angry at what seems like Americans (i.e. the media) characterizing Muslims as snipers, etc. I'm here in America, and believe me, not everyone feels that way. Sure, some people do, and they're generally (uhoh, more generalizations- take it for what it's worth) the same people who were all for "punishing" Saddam Hussein for Sept. 11th, a link which even G.W. Bush himself recently conceded has absolutely no legitimite basis (i.e. was complete bullshit)
2) I'm dumb but I'm not blind. The second most popular justification by Bush and his cronies for war was that we would be 'liberating the Iraqi people.' Right. Since when did American leaders give a sh-t about the Iraqi people? I don't know my history very well. But didn't the US government support Iraq right before Hussein invaded Kuwait? Oh, and the "liberation" thing. Yeah, we "liberated" the Iraqis, just like we "liberated" the Afghanis - and left them to clean up our mess. "Oh, no but the Taliban is gone and the women have rights and everything's on its way to demoracy and it's all going to be all right..." I think I remember (I always fucking forget everything, it's so frustrating) reading about how members of the Northern Alliance are still enforcing Taliban-like rules, especially toward women. I don't know very much. But didn't we arm the people who became the Taliban during the war in Afghanistan against the Soviets? Didn't George the First back out of a deal with some anti-Hussein forces, who as a result were killed, tortured, God knows what... What do all of these things have in common? They're evidence that the US Government, my government, never gave a shit about any foreign person's rights - it's all about what's strategically important at the time. Although, I hardly think US businesses acquiring sweet contracts for Iraqi businesses - when the US-proxy government of Iraq is told to privatize its businesses, i.e., give us the rights to your oil fields - constitutes a strategically important national interest. Because none of the fucking Americans dying in Bush's fucking war and none of the people, including someone I knew, who died on those fucking planes are going to profit off the oil gained by fucking Dick fucking Cheney, fucking Halliburton, etc. Anyway, we all know that Ford is going to move all its factories to Mexico anyway, where thanks in part to agreements like WTO and NAFTA workers have little to no rights, wages, environmental or workplace protections, ability to compete with US-subsidized goods flooding their markets, etc.....Rambling, rambling, rambling. I don't know what I'm talking about anymore. I hate thinking. I wish I'd just shut up.
p.s. hey,kid-"jews" don't "run the country," "run the media" or "have all the money." It doesn't matter your religion, your ethnicity, your gender, your sexual orientation, or your race here - as long as you have money, you can have power, and you can crush people like bugs on the pavement. Please don't scapegoat all Jews the way you dislike other people scapegoating Muslims. People are people are people.

Senior Grad at October 19, 2003 02:38 PM [permalink]:

In responce to Lauren's interesting question above, I think the main difference between Persians and Arabs is that Persians speak Persian at home and Arabs speak Arabic at home. Now, this excludes some minority groups within Iran from our definition of Persian (Turks of Azerbaijan and Khorasan, most people who live inside Iran and near the Caspian sea, Kurds of Central Iran, Arabs of Southern Iran, Baloochs who live near the Pakistani border, to give some examples), but I guess they are simply not Persians. They are Azaris, Kurds, Turkomans, Lors, Baloochs, and Arabs! Not that there is anything wrong with them; they are Iranians, all right, but not Persians!

Now, it is much easier to define "Iranian": Anyone who is born to Iranian parents is Iranian. A circular definition, I know, but it works. :->

I find trying to distinguish Arabs and Persians based on their race quite ridiculous, because even amongst Arabs there can be found a wide variety of races. Compare Arabs of Lebanon and Syria with Arabs of Sudan and Morocco, not to mention that Persians usually look like Arabs. They use a similar script and have a similar religion. Hmmm. What else? I guess that's it!

Ordak D. Coward at October 19, 2003 04:23 PM [permalink]:

SG, besides Iranians, some Lebanese and Egyptian people do not like to be called Arabs either.

Lauren, Arab and Persian are ethnicities, some vague way to classify people based on their rituals and ways of life and ancestory.
Iranian on the other hand is a nationality, something related to the political borders of the time. Now, to complictae things, Iran was called Persia not long before, hence the word Persian can be legally used for nationality, meaning Iranian.
Persian could also refer to the language spoken mainly in parts of Iran/Tajikstan/Afghanistan -- and each variant of Persian can be called Farsi/Tajiki/Dari -- And, the same word could be used to refer people to speak the language, though I believe this is not used very often.

Now, the distinction between Arab and Persian as SG mentioned, usually refers to language/rituals/ancestry. Besides that, as Lauren said we are all people.

Senior Grad at October 19, 2003 05:12 PM [permalink]:

Indeed, Coward. I saw a movie once (West Beirut) in which a Lebanese boy retorts at his father, saying "We are not Arabs, we're Phoenicians!". I now realize how hard it is to give a clear-cut definition for Arab/Iranian/Persian (alphabetically ordered!), as well as any other ethnicity or even nationality. I know people (as I'm sure you also do) who have neber been to Iran in their life but consider themselves Iranian!

I think the issue of "we're better than others" was discussed in good detail elsewhere in this forum. That sentiment is the basis of all such labelings as Arab, Persian, whatever. I used to go to a pizza place where the owner was an Iraqi Kurd and spoke Persian to me, but was offended if I called him Persian, which I did, by mistake of course, every now and then. ;-) Everybody thinks they are something, and that something is better than others' something, and therefore they are easily offended if we don't get those somethings right, but in my opinion it's all ... Never mind. :-)

Ordak D. Coward at October 19, 2003 07:09 PM [permalink]:

SG, I think another reason people like to be called Persian vs. Arab is identity. For example, you do not like me call you Ata, because you identify yourself as Senior Grad, not because one name is better than another.

So, yes, I like to be called properly, that is Ordak or Coward, or even D. But this does not mean I beleive Ordak is better than Hendune. Each of them, properly served, are rather enjoyable.

Senior Grad at October 19, 2003 07:47 PM [permalink]:

Rest assured, Hendune, that I don't mind you calling me anything, as long as it is not out of ordinary (like Ordak) or obviously offensive (like Coward), even though I may be just another coward duck. Besides, you keep calling me SG, as if my name is so hard to spell. It don;t find it flattering Ata ll. For your further information, D., my real name or my pseudonym neither make me proud (like the name Ali does for Ali Sh. Mahani) nor empowers me (like the name Mahdi did for someone who commented on his latest writing) nor embarrasses me (like it used to do for some Ordak that I cannot be sure was you or another one).

Names, in my humble opinion, do not serve much purpose other than identifying people, not, mind you, endowing them with identity and, as you in your infinite wisdom attest to, and pseudonyms are used for a variety of reasons, as I'm sure you can very well imagine. So I do not understand your insistence on

Senior Grad at October 19, 2003 07:57 PM [permalink]:

Oops. I had to leave my previous comment unfinished, because something's come up and I've got to go. Just briefly, names don't have much to do with identity, as Ordak tries to establish...

Lauren at October 19, 2003 08:37 PM [permalink]:

Thanks for the clarification. Most of the people I know, when using the word "Arab," are using it as a general term referring to anyone from the "middle east," whatever that is, I'm not even sure. It's funny; it seems like the more you try to specifically define one of these labels / identities, the more they seem to have multiple definitions, or the more fuzzy they become. Whatever. Thanks again. ~L

Daud Abu Omid at November 11, 2003 10:01 PM [permalink]:

I am glad there is more representation of Iranians in US TV at this time; especially comic! If only Khomeni could see it.

:() at November 15, 2003 08:23 AM [permalink]:

Muslim is Arabic of origin (Saudi Arabia) therebey the Persian continent is influenced by the Arabs ethnically and culturually.

Im not saying that Persians are Purely Arab because other ethnicities have lived and entered there but one cannto deny taht Arabic culture is Persian. Better yet Persian is a style of Arabic culture..

Andischeh at December 9, 2003 08:21 PM [permalink]:

I dont know how long you all have lived outside Iran or how much you know about the history of Iran...
to hate arabs is a paradox for most iranians since they are muslims. How can you belive in a god who only understands arabic, did choose an orfan arab to be his profet and told him its ok with lethal violence towards non belivers, at the same time that you hate arabs??
If all iranians knew the real history of Islam and how Persia was converted to a muslim country, we would all hate arabs and islam!!!
of course we all are human and equal, physically and chemically... but the main difference in people from different countries is cultural and some things are undeniable.
most of the iranians who hate arabs are raised in educated families and know their history. they know how Persia was sieged by the arabs. how barbaric we were treated. how the women were raped. how the persian language and persian names were banned so that our own alfabet was forgotten and how todays arabs are proud that the rest of the world thinks all the persian scientists and writers was arabs since they had arabic names... all thiese are reasons to hate the arab cultur...

many arabs hate iranians too...
I hate what arabs did to us! I hate what Islam has done to our Iran! I hate the arab culture and the arab religion!!! BUT... I have arab friends here in Sweden with very good personal qualities and I dont hold them responsible for the history... every human is responsible for his/her own actions but we should never forget the history...

Andischeh at December 9, 2003 08:52 PM [permalink]:

Persian is NOT a style of arabic culture, mr :()!!
we are the only people in the world whos language and culture has survived the arab invasion and siege!!!!
sure, we have taken influence... but we still have our own language and culture.... the practice of islam is NOT a part of persian culture!!!

we have managed to KEEP our persian identity through invasions of makedonians/greeks, moghuls, arabs and afghans! thus, it is natural to be protectiv about this identity!!!

Ali M. at December 10, 2003 12:55 AM [permalink]:

Daud Abu Omid:

"I am glad there is more representation of Iranians in US TV at this time; especially comic! If only Khomeni could see it".

Well, the Iranians in turn must be glad that there is a big, real-life Arab contingent in the US, France and a few other places, especially of the "pathetic" type, as we witness scenes of Arabs' humiliation and misery in Israel, Iraq, Sudan, etc on a daily basis. And it's "Khomeini", son, not Khomeni.

"Muslim is Arabic of origin (Saudi Arabia) therebey the Persian continent is influenced by the Arabs ethnically and culturually ... Persian is a style of Arabic culture"

Excellent logic: your mom will be sooooo proooooud of you!

Andischeh:

"of course we all are human and equal, physically and chemically... but the main difference in people from different countries is cultural and some things are undeniable. "

Just reminds me of Orwell's Animal Farm:

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

All in all, nice words and beautiful confrontation from 2 petty racists. Keep it going, lads, you are giving us a good laugh.

PS- How about buying a dictionary, both of you?
You really need one; educated, high-brow people that you are!

Andischeh at December 10, 2003 02:34 PM [permalink]:

mr Ali M. Im sorry if my spelling somehow offends you... My first language is persian and my other language is swedish. Anyway I apologize for my obviously insufficient english.

It seems like you have missunderstood the point of my contribution...
I never said that people are not equal or some people are more equall than others, the point is that you can not deny the importance of knowing the history! And the history is the main reason why persian people, generally, hate arabs. Not as individuals, as a cultural unit. That is a fact!!! Now if you choose to close your eyes and repeat all the "politically correct" statements that you hear from media,wherever you liv, it is your problem.
It seems like you all liv in USA and are influensed by the situation there... Dont forget that USA is not the whole world and the american point of view is not the only point of view!

PS- I dont even belive in races...

sarena at January 19, 2004 05:04 PM [permalink]:

[comment removed in violation of Rule 4, FToI Comment Policy]

Wessie at January 20, 2004 09:46 AM [permalink]:

What a bunch of hypocrites reside on this site! LOL

I post that Islam has to go, in order to establish democracies in Islamic countries, and you call it racism. If you want to see racism take a look at your own on this thread and quite a few others:

“I'm Persian!”

http://freethoughts.org/archives/000121.html

Iranians hating and feeling superior to Arabs, especially Iraqis and people from China and Bangladesh and the U.S. and whoever else.

Senior Grad, says dumb things like: "I find trying to distinguish Arabs and Persians based on their race quite ridiculous, because even amongst Arabs there can be found a wide variety of races." Arabs are NOT, NOT, NOT a race! Perhaps the "Senior" will have to stay for another year and make up for some of his deficiencies.

It's just amazing. You all claim I am "racist" because I disdain Islamic terrorists—but you, you all don't like anyone who is not "Persian"—people from a place that hasn't existed for quite a while.

So, how come none of you got your own "log" in the corner of the net? Not to worry you have your very own corner of the world where you are isolated and no one listens to you in the real world. Iran, the terror supporting Pariah of the world, filled with "superior Persians" who believe their [blank] doesn't stink.

"All in all, nice words and beautiful confrontation from 2 petty racists. . ."

Too bad being a "Persian" racist hasn't helped one bit when it comes to Islamic terror. Looks like your "Persian" ancestors were not "superior" enough to resist Islam in Iran. But, that is why you say you hate Arabs.

"the history is the main reason why persian people, generally, hate arabs."

Yes, the "history" is the main reason for our disdain of Islam. We in the U.S. don't have to go back hundreds of years—only a few, to 9/11 and the Iranian hostage crisis to name a couple of things.

You should all be ashamed!

Wessie

Smart Ass at January 20, 2004 11:23 AM [permalink]:

Hey Wessie, you are right either way!

Your disdain of Islam will just make the Islamists more encouraged to believe that they are right.

Either way they are right! Either way you are right!

Either way we are caught between you idiots!

It is so bad you fundamentalists exist, I wish there was a final solution for you, your patriot fundamentalist siblings and all other types of religious fundamentalists!


Either way, I am right!:);)

bahram at January 26, 2004 02:25 AM [permalink]:

arabs are under constant threat of a military invasion or a cultural peneteration by US. we(persians)have been experincing that already for years and kind of used to it.we survived the bad of the worst, which arabs like iraq,sauadi, egypt and so on.... are going through now.US kind of giving up on sanctions and economic measures on iran while put ever growing pressure on arabs. Arabs also lack the same intelligence and courge that is a common sense between pepole of iran therfore they have much harder time than we have in past 25 years example a monkey called connel Gaddafi in libey or Mobark in egypt who just came to our stepdoor to beg like a junky out of drug!!!!.arabs today need us more than ever so desperate that is why they are so kind and taliking about unity of all muslims.now it is up to you my fellow persians screw them for their past harms to persia by getting on american side or to forgive them and being put in the list of most wanted published by the goverment of US. you tell me what to do!!!!????

AIS at January 26, 2004 06:19 AM [permalink]:

Abu Omid,

If one day Iran decides finall to get out of the Islamic world for good, which I hope to happen as soon as possible, I just wonder what will be left of your 'culture'?

Mohammad at January 26, 2004 08:59 AM [permalink]:

A couple of points:

Racism exists among almost all groups of people. It may manifest itself as just xenophobia (what we mostly see among people, they do not trust others and stereotype them, may feel better or superior) or in a few people it may take the form of ideological racism. Ideological racism (like racism against native Americans and Blacks, against Jews, ...) generally stems from "blaming the others" syndrome. It needs state supposrt to reach its devastating potential.
Both types of racism exists among Iranians and Arabs.
Baath party (in Iraq against Iranians or Persians) and in Syria (against Israelis and Turks) made it its official ideology. AbdelNasser in Egypt fanned it against Iran as the non-Arab country with close ties to the West. In Iran it is mostly of xenophobic type, although there was push towards ideological type late in Reza Shah's reign, but it was not successful.
Iraq-Iran war made it very obvious that Arab governments do make it a policy to fan anti-Iranian racism. Time and again they have made it clear that Iranians are not in the club. Both for being non-Arab (less then 3% of Iranians are Arabic speakers) and for being Shi'a.
Also, there are racial differences. It is undeniable that majority of Iranians are indo-European, while Arabs are semitic. Culturally the two groups are different. For example Norouz is far more important for us than Fetr festival.
Regarding the name Persia, Iranians always referred to their country as Iran (Eran Shahr, Eran Zamin). Persia was the name that Greeks, Romans and other Europeans used for the country. It was used in official documents of the government of Iran up to 1935. Reza Shah changed it to Iran for all to use.

Paraturner at January 26, 2004 09:15 AM [permalink]:

Mohammad,

you just wrote:
"It is undeniable that majority of Iranians are indo-European".

Only that they mostly don't look the type: It is basically the people of North, West and some Eastern parts that look indo-European.

You might want to have a look at these genetic studies though (oops, I know it's Nazi science, but it's recent!): This particular page displays the genetic distance of Iranians with some other nationalities on the average, it's fun to see:

Sforza.

Andischeh at January 28, 2004 06:40 PM [permalink]:

Sforza

such ignorance!!!!

In all of Europe's history, there have never been any European civilizations or peoples who have ever referred to themselves as Aryans. The only people who have ever referred to themselves as Aryans since prehistoric and ancient times have been White Iranians. The word "Aryan" itself only began to be used by Europeans in the 19th century as a symnonym for "Indo-European", which was an inaccurate and false use of the word "Aryan". In that same era, Comte de Gobineau and Houston Stewart Chamberlain began developing and promoting the idea that the Nordic (Germanic) peoples were the purest Aryans and were responsible for all civilization throughout the world. This idea later became popular amongst Adolf Hitler and the NSDAP through efforts by the German-based Thule Society and NSDAP members Alfred Rosenberg and Heinrich Himmler. This idea however has been repudiated by scholars and anthropoligists and is an unfortunate product of the European search for identity.

Andischeh at January 28, 2004 06:46 PM [permalink]:

I am Dariush, the great king, the king of kings
The king of many countries and many peoples
The king of this expansive land,
The son of Wishtaspa of Achaemenid,
Persian, the son of a Persian,
'Aryan', from the Aryan race

"From the Darius the Great's Inscription in Naqshe-e-Rostam"


The above scripture is one of most valid written evidences of the history of the Aryan race, and as can be seen, Darius I (Dariush in persian), the Achaemenian king, in the 5th century BCE, declares himself a Persian and form the Aryan race. Herodotus, the father of history, writes (in his book: "History of Herodotus") at the same times: "In ancient times, the Greeks called Iranians "Kaffe", but they were renowned as Aryans among themselves and their neighbors". In another part of his book, Herodotus writes that the Medians were known as Aryans during a certain period. So in two of the oldest written human documents, the race of the Iranians have been mentioned as Aryan.

Aamir Ali at January 31, 2004 02:16 AM [permalink]:

Iranians are nation of hypocrites I have seen many Irani in LA and Dallas they are all munafiqeen. Iranians should learn from Pakistani and Arab communities in USA who are prosperous and educated as well as good Muslims. This world WILL end one day and you WILL stand before Allah(SWT). He will not be impressed with excuses like liberalism or secularism or other garbage.

AIS at January 31, 2004 06:14 AM [permalink]:

Better than the fairytale you fool yourself with, buddy!

bahram at February 1, 2004 01:53 AM [permalink]:

to Amir Ali
i too got to know many pakastanis in north america ok they all had two charatersticts in common, they all are observent musliams and they all sale illicit drugs. oh yeah bin laden said so too, no matter what you do just pray to allah, whose repesentative in earth would be him(of course for wahhabi). Arabs have always liked to see us (persian) proclaiming ourselves arabs(it is always confusing for outsiders to distiguish between us). we always refuse to do so , just because we are not!!in these days they(arabs)need us more than ever, pressure from US mounting up and all of sudden they are saying persians are their muslims brothers!!! well i say "let's be their brothers" get whatever economic benefits that would otherwise go to west and then screw them at the right moment because they would not hesitate to screw us if they get a chance. A reminder of what they might do: hajj procession 20 years ago.

Henk at February 8, 2004 07:41 PM [permalink]:

Hi all,interesting read material for an outsider like me. :-)

am at February 27, 2004 03:58 PM [permalink]:

this is on another topic...but does racism against blacks (african americans) exist in the persian culture?