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July 17, 2003

more than a million martyrs
Babak Farzad  [info|posts]

[After more than an hour serious dialogue]

BF: so, what if the majority of Iranians do not want this political system? Don't you think that the government (both elected and selected parts) should step down?

KH: This is not true. All Iranians, except for a very few of them, are devoted to this system.

BF: It is just an assumption.

KH: This is a wrong assumption. They have given more than a million
martyrs for this system [Comment: How many martyrs Did the National
Socialist German Workers' Party take under Adolf Hitler?]

BF: Ok! It may never happen but for the sake of argument, assume that
people say no "velayat-e faghih", in a, let's say, referendum.

KH: In that case, it is like a child who tells his mother "I do not like you" just because his mother has not bought him a chocolate, for his very own sake. The child is just nagging but the mother may not leave him alone.

BF: Ok! I got it.

BHS at July 17, 2003 06:16 PM [permalink]:

Though hard as I try I can't abbreviate Mesbah Yazdi into KH. What mapping did you use, BF?

eric at July 18, 2003 06:24 PM [permalink]:

i dont understand why muslims kill in the name of god, if god says not to kill. and why is it that so many muslims talk about joining together to protect fellow muslims (against non muslims)...but yet, you guys kill each other every single day... in the name of god.

Kaveh at July 18, 2003 06:44 PM [permalink]:

I am not sure many Iranians (especially among the intellectuals would be happy to be identified as Muslims. But Eric has a point still. Islam seems not be the religion of peace, or maybe somehow it has changed or Muslims have or I have?

eric at July 18, 2003 07:05 PM [permalink]:

maybe i have missunderstood.....Iranians are not muslims? what exactly is a muslim and whats the difference between that and islam? forgive me, im not culturaly educated. I thought one and the same. I thought anyone who believed in allah was a muslim. i only wish to say that anyone who loves god, loves his fellow man. we all came from god. and we are all going to god in the end. it is rediculous that certain psychos take it upon themselves to force their hatred on the world. what they should be doing with all that terrorist money, is feed the starving children in palestine...instead of trying to kill with it. wouldnt that end suffering? their stated goal? sorry, if this site has nothing to do with world events...but im an american who is afraid that the rest of the world will never know we dont hate them. or at least us god fearing ones.

BHS at July 18, 2003 09:47 PM [permalink]:


Muslims who killed and kill in the name of God are not the only ones who did so in the history. They happen to be in a time when other religions' fanaticism era is almost over. That makes them look singled out. But in historic terms the same question may be aksed about the believers of almost any religion. A question that needs a fair amount of discussion and space to be answered.

`Allah' is just the Arabic word meaning `God.' So, I don't think by `anyone who blieves is Allah is amuslim,' we gain much. Even after refining the definition to avoid problems of this kind, there's what Kaveh says in his post. That is, the Iranian soceity is a heterogeneous blend, and I believe the same stands true for the larger muslim community around the globe, especially when it comes to stric statements or question such as the ones Eric makes or asks